ls3 crate motor swap
08-25-2009, 11:52 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
ls3 crate motor swap
ANyone know whats needed to drop one of the LS3 480hp crate motors into a '98 C5? It looks like it needs a new harness/ecu, but I figured I should ask those that know more than I.
This is for my cousin that just blew up his LS1 (looks like it lost the oil pump and munched the bearings).
This is for my cousin that just blew up his LS1 (looks like it lost the oil pump and munched the bearings).
08-26-2009, 08:56 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
And don't even think about putting an LS3 in there unless you also plan on installing a dry sump...which will run you another $5K.
08-26-2009, 12:40 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
This isn't for a race car, he just wants a beefier motor. No drag racing, no track days, just a fun car, so I don't think the dry sump is needed. We know the motor costs $$, but it has a nice warranty. Also know that the torque tube needs upgrading to the c5z unit.
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
08-26-2009, 12:58 PM
#6
Former Vendor
This isn't for a race car, he just wants a beefier motor. No drag racing, no track days, just a fun car, so I don't think the dry sump is needed. We know the motor costs $$, but it has a nice warranty. Also know that the torque tube needs upgrading to the c5z unit.
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
Randy
08-26-2009, 01:07 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
I am just parroting what someone else said during a conversation in the Pocono paddocks. The conversation was about swapping the LS3 into the C5 for T1 competition and what it would entail.
This isn't a legal swap, and I am not sure it has even been discussed. But the subject was one "out of the box" idea.
This isn't a legal swap, and I am not sure it has even been discussed. But the subject was one "out of the box" idea.
08-26-2009, 01:15 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Why would anyone want to do this who's not racing? I mean, if you really just want to burn $5-8K, I'll be happy to burn it for you...for a 10% commission of course.
The LS6 pushes 405 HP...and the LS3 is 435. If he's not racing, he'll never, ever notice those 30HP. Hell, I AM racing and don't notice the 30 HP. The LS6 is absolutely bulletproof and the LS3 is...well...not.
Take an LS6 and put a set of headers on it and an aluminum flywheel and you'll be better off. Take the left over $4K, put gas in the car, buy your girlfriend a nice bauble and a night on the town, and stick the rest in the bank.
The LS6 pushes 405 HP...and the LS3 is 435. If he's not racing, he'll never, ever notice those 30HP. Hell, I AM racing and don't notice the 30 HP. The LS6 is absolutely bulletproof and the LS3 is...well...not.
Take an LS6 and put a set of headers on it and an aluminum flywheel and you'll be better off. Take the left over $4K, put gas in the car, buy your girlfriend a nice bauble and a night on the town, and stick the rest in the bank.
08-26-2009, 01:39 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Chris -
Hes not talking about the base 430hp LS3, he wants the 480hp version. The LS3s have been pretty reliable for street use. Hes never going to put stickies on it and go play, so no worries with the oil getting sloshed around due to high g forces. Also, the price difference seems to be more like $1300, not $4k.
Randy, can you please explain this 58tooth box thing?
Hes not talking about the base 430hp LS3, he wants the 480hp version. The LS3s have been pretty reliable for street use. Hes never going to put stickies on it and go play, so no worries with the oil getting sloshed around due to high g forces. Also, the price difference seems to be more like $1300, not $4k.
Randy, can you please explain this 58tooth box thing?
Last edited by mgarfias; 08-26-2009 at 01:44 PM.
08-26-2009, 01:42 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Which brings me back to my original statement... Why would anyone who's not racing do this, especially when there are LS6s out there that will last him forever? ...and basically just plug and play in the C5.
08-26-2009, 04:47 PM
#11
Race Director
has anyone ever seen of a LS3 or an LS6 dropping a valve? seems its happen to both with people jsut sitting at traffic lights.. idling in the driveway, etc.. or is this what you were talking about by the LS3 not being so bulletproof? 
Last edited by Z06_BluByU; 08-26-2009 at 09:08 PM.
08-26-2009, 06:18 PM
#12
Former Vendor
Chris -
Hes not talking about the base 430hp LS3, he wants the 480hp version. The LS3s have been pretty reliable for street use. Hes never going to put stickies on it and go play, so no worries with the oil getting sloshed around due to high g forces. Also, the price difference seems to be more like $1300, not $4k.
Randy, can you please explain this 58tooth box thing?
Hes not talking about the base 430hp LS3, he wants the 480hp version. The LS3s have been pretty reliable for street use. Hes never going to put stickies on it and go play, so no worries with the oil getting sloshed around due to high g forces. Also, the price difference seems to be more like $1300, not $4k.
Randy, can you please explain this 58tooth box thing?
08-26-2009, 06:31 PM
#13
Former Vendor
The LS3 hot cam motor makes 480 hp for about $6600. That is only 25 less then the LS7 and is less then half the cost. This is about $1000 more then the LS6. This would make an awesome street motor. Your LS1 uses a 24 tooth reluctor on the crank. The LS3 uses a 58 tooth reluctor, so you do need a new ecu. Wiring harness can be made by Howell Engineering. This isn't that big a deal to change.
08-26-2009, 06:36 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
They're dropping valves now?!?!?! Good lord.
08-26-2009, 06:48 PM
#15
Drifting
I've read about the oil starvation problems on the LS3s. Is the oiling in the block itself any different than the LS1/6? Is the problem in drain back, and oil pan design? I bolted my LS6 pan to an LS3 block.
08-26-2009, 07:00 PM
#17
Team Owner
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This isn't for a race car, he just wants a beefier motor. No drag racing, no track days, just a fun car, so I don't think the dry sump is needed. We know the motor costs $$, but it has a nice warranty. Also know that the torque tube needs upgrading to the c5z unit.
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
Buckeye, i didn't see this kit at LPE, any more info?
Granting the ONLY 405 bhp is not as super sexy as 480 bhp, but it will last a heck of a lot longer.
and dont believe what you read in LS1 tech. Those guys are blowing LS3 motors too. Most do to cams will into the .600 lift range, with super high rpms,
Last edited by AU N EGL; 08-26-2009 at 08:18 PM.
08-26-2009, 07:01 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
The LS3 had many oiling issues, but I don't know all the details. I do know that when you turn left in an LS3, the oil just doesn't seem to stay with the pick-up and the oil pressure drops dramatically. The LS6 style (bat-wing) pan does help, but it's not a cure. It also burns a significant amount and pukes up (into the intake) a large portion of oil.
It also apparently has quite a bit of blow-by so the hot exhaust slips past the rings and superheats the oil to 340 degrees or more. Oh and did I mention the first series of LS3 engines have bad pistons that come apart above 6K rpms.
GM and I worked on all of these issues over the course of a year and they were very gracious and helpful. The oiling problem is basically fixed with the dry sump (at a $5K cost) and they already redesigned and built new pistons.
The engine seems to do fine on the street, but you take a big risk when you put it on track. FWIW, I would not use one without a dry sump, whether I tracked the car or not...certainly not one with 480HP!
It also apparently has quite a bit of blow-by so the hot exhaust slips past the rings and superheats the oil to 340 degrees or more. Oh and did I mention the first series of LS3 engines have bad pistons that come apart above 6K rpms.
GM and I worked on all of these issues over the course of a year and they were very gracious and helpful. The oiling problem is basically fixed with the dry sump (at a $5K cost) and they already redesigned and built new pistons.
The engine seems to do fine on the street, but you take a big risk when you put it on track. FWIW, I would not use one without a dry sump, whether I tracked the car or not...certainly not one with 480HP!
08-26-2009, 09:09 PM
#19
Race Director
some people talk about the LS6 dropping valves also... anyone here heard of that?!? seems like the LS6 engine has a good reputation for durability..
08-26-2009, 09:25 PM
#20
Melting Slicks
The LS6 is a very durable engine...and I've never seen one fail that wasn't altered somehow. I've seen LS6s detonate, but all of them were opened up and modified somehow. I put 15K racing miles on my original 01 engine with no issues at all. A friend of mine (Bob Hill) who used to race, actually put my old engine in his street Vette and to the best of my knowledge is still ticking just fine - bulletproof!
That is the primary reason I'm questioning why anyone would put a 480HP LS3 in a C5 that doesn't plan to race it...when there are perfectly good 405 HP LS6 engines out there (with very low miles) for the taking. And I don't care that he supposedly doesn't plan on doing anything (hard) with the car either - there's no way I'd put a 480HP engine in there without a dry sump...and that cranks the price up $5K+. ...but it ain't my car.
That is the primary reason I'm questioning why anyone would put a 480HP LS3 in a C5 that doesn't plan to race it...when there are perfectly good 405 HP LS6 engines out there (with very low miles) for the taking. And I don't care that he supposedly doesn't plan on doing anything (hard) with the car either - there's no way I'd put a 480HP engine in there without a dry sump...and that cranks the price up $5K+. ...but it ain't my car.