Nimo

I've been running the below values using shims to change between preset setups (not shimming the rear):
Street: -1.4 front and -1.3 rear, Toe-totals: 1/16" in, 2/16" in
Track: -2.0 front and -1.3 rear, Toe Totals: 1/2" out, 2/16" in
EDIT:
Front track toe without adjustment, after removing shims: 1/2" out - after adjusting each drag link 1 rev: 1/16 out

Front tire wear is fine for the street setup, but wears the outer edges for track.
The rears have little outside wear for track, but excessive wear on the inside for street.

So I'm thinking that I would want the rear camber to be around -1.0 for street and just below -2 for track. Was thinking that -3 , or what max I could get,might be good up front for track.
- But it looks like I can get more than -6

Any thoughts for what's too much (front and rear) for a C6Z track setup, running R6s?
- I would optimize for 50% grip and 50% tire life - If there is a trade off. Regular bushings.

Some shims in - still at -5.5


/Nik

DarkMastyr

Nik, you want to run your camber like this.

Nimo

Not quite there yet


/Nik

gkmccready

Half inch toe-out up front? That's the most I've ever seen anybody run. I don't even think I've heard of autocrossers using that much.

I'm running -1.25deg in the rear and my tires look good both on the street and on the track. I'm running around 3/64" toe-in in the rear rather than 1/8" ... I have poly bushings.

Up front I have -1.8deg and 1/32" toe-IN, and a little over 8deg caster.

I don't change the settings between street and track and my R888s look pretty darn good -- I also don't change tires.

If you dig back through threads here I think you'll find both LGM and DRM recommend no more than -1.5deg rear camber. DRM recommends "a smidge" of front toe-in while everybody else like a bit of toe-out. I'm giving the toe-in a shot and I have to say it works really well.

You're going to hear everything from -1.75deg to -3.5deg front. :-)

BEZ06

withy gkmccready - 1/2" toe out up front sounds excessive. I try to set about 1/8" total toe-out up front, and 1/8" total toe-in for the rear.

As far as camber, take a look at this Hoosier site (I think you're running Hoosier R6 tires):

https://www.hoosiertire.com/Tctips.htm

Scroll down and you'll see:


I run -2.5 to -2.7 up front, and about -1.5 to -1.7 in the rear, and get smooth wear across the entire tread when running Hoosier's recommended tire pressures - I shoot for around 40 to 42 psi hot pressures.

Many of the w2w racers here use cold pressures of less than 20 psi, but they run A6 tires and aren't worried about length of life, just max grip.

You say you're getting wear on the outside shoulders on the track, and I suspect that's from your toe-out, not enough camber, and maybe low pressure (but if you're looking for 50/50 grip/life, you'll just have to accept wear on the outside shoulders at a lower pressure - flip them after a few sessions).

So.....how much camber is too much??? I dunno!! Butt....I'd think anything over -3 degrees would be overkill.

Bob

AU N EGL

As Glenn says you hear everything under the sun

I also run 1/32" IN up front if I can get it that close.

redtopz

I run settings very close to gkmccready. I went to MSI and they set me up with -2.0 front and -1.5 rear and I have poly bushings. This setup works well with R6's, but is not enough camber for slicks. I corded the outside of dunlops on all 4 corners in 2 days. I have zero toe all around. My car feels very good, but I actually haven't checked my alignment in over a year. Maybe you should try -2.5 front and keep the rear at around -1.5 for the track and bring your front toe in a little bit.

Bill.

Nimo

My front toe was excessive - didn't quite look like it, but definitely going for a more neutral setup.


I used to run 40+ hot, but think I'm getting better grip with 32-34 psi hot. Tires get older, out side temperature picks up - hard to tell for sure. Grip and wear probably relate to both pressure and alignement

Thanks for feedback

- I think I will shoot for -3 front and -1.9 rear with neutral toe. Don't have any logging to show over/under steer. Time for an alignment, so I may as well try something new. Using camber plates limits the possible setting somewhat, so I will see what it ends up with.


/Nik

*C7*

[QUOTE=
- I think I will shoot for -3 front and -1.9 rear with neutral toe. Don't have any logging to show over/under steer. Time for an alignment, so I may as well try something new. Using camber plates limits the possible setting somewhat, so I will see what it ends up with.


/Nik[/QUOTE]

Nik, I am playing with a camber kit at this time as well. What do you mean by "using camber plates limits the possible setting somewhat"??

I'm thinking because of the tickness of the shim. I'm using 1/64" as the thinest.

Just curious, thanks....

Poor-sha

I"m running the Pfadt kit on my car and each washer works out to ~.5 deg of change. I take two washers out before track days to go from street (-1.5) to track (-2.5 deg) camber.

Even at -2.5 I still have a couple more washers and could in theory remove.

The next time I have the washers our I'll measure how thick they are but I suspect they are 1/32"

*C7*

Are you using a washer or an open ended shim??

With the shim you just loosen the nut and lift out or put in.

Are you using the factory washers??? Or does Pfadt supply washers???

My kit is from Hardbar..

Poor-sha

When Katech put the kit in they used washers instead of shims - I presume to make sure there were no problems with shims coming out. I actually think they are 1/16" washers not 1/32".

I believe that Pfadt supplies shims withthe kit. I'm going to look through the parts that Katech shipped back to see if I can find the shims. If I can find them I might go to using shims just for the washers that I remove/replace after each track day.

0Randy@DRM

You have been making many changes. Tire pressure also effects the tire wear. The lighter the pressure the more outside tire wear will happen. The front toe was way off in left field, which may lead to some crazy tire wear.

Randy

NemesisC5

subscribed

Nimo

You lock down the point which is used from the factory to set camber and use other adjustment points. The upper control arm adjustment range is then dictated by
- Length of studs
- Lower bolt offset (plates)
Hardbar has longer studs and supply for both front and rear for C6Z, his camber plates are also more aggressive in offset.

- In my first attempt (last year), I could not get past -2, while keeping a street worthy range (Pfadt kit)
- Now, its the opposite - almost have too much fully shimmed (Hardbar)
Actually have one full kit of Pfadt shims in each front Hardbar stud kit - filled all the way.
I'm all out of shims and are using washers in the rear.


Too many variables at once, but it will give me a new starting point to play with and draw conclusions from
- I run the last setup for about a year. Last I checked toe at the track, it was less - so the 1/2 may be a typo from the shop. Anyway, it will be less this time



/Nik

*C7*

If we have the same camber block on the front and rear of the control arm and an equal number of shims on all four upper A arm mounting points is there any castor??

In other words is there some "built in castor" with all adjusting points being equal??

Nimo

I don't have an answer for that, but I have always ended up with different shim setups for the 2 front and 2 rear upper fronts.


/Nik

BrianCunningham

If you run too much camber, you compromise your braking.

That's really the limiting factor.

Nimo

Thanks
/Nik

gkmccready

I don't have an actual measurement, but I can say there is "some" castor when run that way. Certainly not as much as staggering the shims, though...