NVR2L8

Hey guys -

I want to run an HPDE at Mid Ohio in October.

Both the BMW Club and Porsche Club are sponsoring events.

For those of you who have run with one or both groups, which one would you rather run with?

Also, what are the pros and cons of each?

Thanks in advance.

rad_vet

In the NW the PCA and BMW ACA run the events the exact same way. Mostly the same people run in DEs for both clubs. The cars are a little faster at the PCA events.

Wayne O

If possible, do both events and decide for yourself.

Rob's 73

I run with PCA in their white group. Very safe event. Drivers evenly matched. Most of the cars are fast.

varkwso

Most groups have the same instructor core and participants. I go with the run both and then decide for yourself!

argonaut

I've run with two separate PCA clubs in the NE. Both were excellent. There are some darn fast P cars and seeing them well driven is both inspiring and humbling. I doubt you'd go wrong with either club.

gkull

HPDE are not timed events. But it is fun to shut up some Porsche owners bench racing when you blow by them in the passing zones. They also liked it when I went flying off the track doing 360's with brake failure with a pack of turbo cars behind me. It's all in fun.

The BMW guys now all about every model so I can't sit and talk BMW with them. They have lower power to weight ratios.

If given a choice. I'd rather be screwing with Porsche guys because they have bragging rights on the line

BrianCunningham

Sounds the better answer.

I've been all over the country.

It's the members that make the difference!

jpobrien

I have never run with the BMW club, but I'm doing both the NOR PCA and OVR PCA events at Mid-Ohio in October. The OVR is my home club - I have several friends with Porsches (in OVR) that got me involved with HPDE.

Both are good events, but I have more fun at OVR - since I know more of the guys...

dcvee

Well, my experience is this; The Corvette drivers make fun of Mustang drivers. The Porsche drivers make fun of BMW drivers. The BMW drivers make fun of Mustang, Porsche, Audi, Corvette, Miata, etc etc.

Don <---has M3's.

rustyguns

Zenak

i find the porsche events are very well organized, go off without a hitch.. .but can be a bit of sticklers on safty inspections etc.

This could often be a nuisence.

BUT many porsche events have lower #'s in them, which is nice. And there are many with HIGH HP so if you are experienced the PCA events tend to have more higher level competition.

I have never had an issue at either with a vette, in fact every place i go the most or second most common car is a C5 vette on track days.

JimbeauZ06

I've run with both. I like going out with PCA, but I'm partial b/c I'm a member. I definitely enjoy playing with the Turbos, GT3s, and Cup cars, but I've also noticed that the Bimmer guys have some pretty impressive skills and a fast E30 driver isn't relying on HP to get to your door, and they've taught me a thing or to about line and momentum. I don't really think you can go wrong with either crew.

I pretty much stick to PCA b/c I like their rules and their safety. Might be a nuisance to some, but I'd rather have it than not. Having been to several events with clubs other than the two we're discussing, I don't particularly care to be on the track with cars that haven't been properly prepped or maintained. The only way to know is to inspect.

AU N EGL

PCAs are the largest Car Clubs, have the most HPDEs and have more then twice as many participants at DEs then any other car club

PCA basically sets the rules for HPDEs and other car clubs follow PCA format and rules. So it is not a nuisance it is safety first and foremost.

Joy of 6

I instruct for both clubs here in the northwest and as mentioned, they are run by the same set of people and we do work well together. One major difference is that eh PCA does not allow passengers except for certified instructors, while the BMW allows passengers. Our PCA also lets the instructors have more passing zones, but that is a local rule based on everybody playing well together.

Do both groups!!

Zenak

Speaking of which Jim.. see ya on Sat/Sun @ Pocono? Hey, I got my wife (the hood ornament) to come out for her first HPDE. God help me!

dcvee

You sure about all this? Not that's it's worth debating, but I would think that the BMWCCA has the largest car club and more HPDE participants. I think the PCA has more events...but smaller numbers. Every event I ever attend, be it in my BMW or my Z06 always seems to have more BMW than any other brand(non-marque events obviously). It would be interesting to see total membership numbers of either group.

Either is a great group as far as performance driving goes. Good schools, good folks.

Don

JimbeauZ06

Keith, I'll see you there! You're a brave man, and I mean that only from the financial standpoint. Based on what you've told me this could get really expensive if she likes it!

longdaddy

it all depends on how the regional clubs are managed. i ran with 2 diff PCA groups on the west coast, one was fine, another one had sickening amount of useless protocol and embarassing level of kissassery to the good ol boys at the top. i am a PCA member. either one had underwhelming amount of track time compared to the events put on by dedicated track day organizers.

PCA makes decent $$ for the club coffers on their HPDEs from the numbers I have seen - mostly by stacking the paddock with too many cars. if you are not a member, you are sponsoring those of us who are. i think for car clubs HPDEs should be zero balance events, but that's just my personal opinion.

AU N EGL

tracks are expensive to rent. and to reserve a track the club has to put down a depsit. 20-25%of the rental fee in January, Even if your event is late in the year.

if a club does not put down the depsoit, then that date is free for the first club to put up the deposit.

So if a track costs $30,000 for a 2 day weekend to rent, that is a nonrefundable $7-$8 grand deposit. Well before registration opens.

and that is just ONE event.

Many clubs put on 4-5 events a year. Four events by $7K = $28,000 in deposits well before registration and Dollar One comes in. Or even smaller tracks at $7K a weekend times 4 events or $28,000 with $5400 deposits in January. Not easy to do on a no income or no balance NFP Club.