So I went for a ride in a GTR at Grattan today
10-16-2009, 09:19 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
So I went for a ride in a GTR at Grattan today
I had someone call me up about attending our track day today at Grattan in a Nissan GT-R.
He could not make it for the full day but wanted to check out the event and showed up around 3.
Never been on track before, never owned a 'fast' car before. I took him out for some laps in the Mustang(05 GT, RA1's, Stoptech brakes, Carbotech pads, suspension bits and pieces)....its a fun car and I was running 1:34's on a very cold day.
So I took him for some hot laps and he said afterwards *I* could drive his car around the track.
We went out, pulled in and I didn't make a big deal about driving his car. I've spent plenty of time in exotics and high dollar cars and that last thing I really wanted to do is take a 100K car on a slippery cold track 10 minutes after meeting someone.
I instead made the decision to let him drive
The car is simply unbelievable. It is beyond like a video game. He had never been on track, apparently did not pay much attention to me telling him about cornering, apex, and the cones out on the track.
In any other car we would have been off track 4 times, no doubt. Its hard to explain its ability to change direction at speed. I did not drive it but his steering inputs ,wild as they were, created immediate action.
He was so far off line and going so fast that I was telling him to slow down because we were going to end up going off. Too far past the entry point of a corner, too much speed.
Imagine completely screwing up a corner, to where you cannot get back on the line by the next turn. You miss one bad enough, you miss the next 1-2.
Not in this car, it didn't matter where he was on track, how fast he was going, it just changed directions.
It make 50ft of track at 60mph seem like 500ft of track.
Throttle response for a turbo car was incredible. The car didn't feel all that fast in a straight line but the speedometer showed something else.
Normally a quick car will enter the straight away at Grattan at about 85mph. He was pretty rough and again after repeated, 'slow down' we came onto the straight at 60mph, by 1/2 way down the straight we were doing 120.
We did 3 laps which was enough. He was good about my talk afterwards, he just got excited and I should have prepped him a little more before going out but it was unbelievable.
I honestly think I could sit in that car cold and after 3-4 laps be turning sub 1:30's dead stock and I've never turned a sub 1:30 there.
He went through some turn complexes completely offline and a disaster in any car yet they seemed as fast as nailing them perfectly.
He'll be back in May but never the less it was an amazing car.
He could not make it for the full day but wanted to check out the event and showed up around 3.
Never been on track before, never owned a 'fast' car before. I took him out for some laps in the Mustang(05 GT, RA1's, Stoptech brakes, Carbotech pads, suspension bits and pieces)....its a fun car and I was running 1:34's on a very cold day.
So I took him for some hot laps and he said afterwards *I* could drive his car around the track.
We went out, pulled in and I didn't make a big deal about driving his car. I've spent plenty of time in exotics and high dollar cars and that last thing I really wanted to do is take a 100K car on a slippery cold track 10 minutes after meeting someone.
I instead made the decision to let him drive
The car is simply unbelievable. It is beyond like a video game. He had never been on track, apparently did not pay much attention to me telling him about cornering, apex, and the cones out on the track.
In any other car we would have been off track 4 times, no doubt. Its hard to explain its ability to change direction at speed. I did not drive it but his steering inputs ,wild as they were, created immediate action.
He was so far off line and going so fast that I was telling him to slow down because we were going to end up going off. Too far past the entry point of a corner, too much speed.
Imagine completely screwing up a corner, to where you cannot get back on the line by the next turn. You miss one bad enough, you miss the next 1-2.
Not in this car, it didn't matter where he was on track, how fast he was going, it just changed directions.
It make 50ft of track at 60mph seem like 500ft of track.
Throttle response for a turbo car was incredible. The car didn't feel all that fast in a straight line but the speedometer showed something else.
Normally a quick car will enter the straight away at Grattan at about 85mph. He was pretty rough and again after repeated, 'slow down' we came onto the straight at 60mph, by 1/2 way down the straight we were doing 120.
We did 3 laps which was enough. He was good about my talk afterwards, he just got excited and I should have prepped him a little more before going out but it was unbelievable.
I honestly think I could sit in that car cold and after 3-4 laps be turning sub 1:30's dead stock and I've never turned a sub 1:30 there.
He went through some turn complexes completely offline and a disaster in any car yet they seemed as fast as nailing them perfectly.
He'll be back in May but never the less it was an amazing car.
10-16-2009, 09:40 PM
#2
Drifting
Yup I 100% agree... I was running with one of these at VIR with the groups mazda and track daze. (I should say I was trying to keep up). After a few sessions I went to talk to the driver and he said he just has to put the hammer down and point the car, the computer takes car of the rest. While I am back there driving my A$$ off he probably has the AC On with the IPOD jamming to Yani lol. Point is .. 440 RWHP R6 tires generally speaking could not stick with him... Great fast awesome car....
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
Last edited by RaleighSS; 10-16-2009 at 09:43 PM.
10-16-2009, 11:39 PM
#4
Racer
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Did we see the video of the race-prepped GT-R? I forget - it's been everywhere else 
The build thread: http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29989
The build thread: http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=29989
10-17-2009, 12:27 AM
#6
Drifting
I've passed that exact same yellow and green Miata at a NCRC trackday, but I sure didn't pass him that easily!!! 2:03 to 1:52 lap times are not even in the same ball park so I guess I won't be passing any big time race cars. At least I can pass Miata race cars with my street car.
Dog
Dog
Last edited by meldog21; 10-17-2009 at 12:30 AM.
10-17-2009, 05:33 AM
#7
Team Owner
what was a race prepped GTR doing racing a bunch of Miata's? Not really impressed by his competition and the dollar difference of them.
10-17-2009, 09:03 AM
#8
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Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota Fl
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Yup I 100% agree... I was running with one of these at VIR with the groups mazda and track daze. (I should say I was trying to keep up). After a few sessions I went to talk to the driver and he said he just has to put the hammer down and point the car, the computer takes car of the rest. While I am back there driving my A$$ off he probably has the AC On with the IPOD jamming to Yani lol. Point is .. 440 RWHP R6 tires generally speaking could not stick with him... Great fast awesome car....
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
10-17-2009, 09:17 AM
#9
Team Owner
10-17-2009, 09:20 AM
#10
Team Owner
Thread Starter
He never went back out.
He just came to see what the day was like and I offered him a lap in his car because everyone wanted to see the car go around the track.
I shouldn't say he didn't listen...he listened but then just did what he thought was right based on instinct.
I spent my time intructing yesterday for the first time really. My biggest issue was when a student started to drift away from the turn in point. They'd get nervous about turning in so late at the cone so they'd start to drift over on the track.
This always ended with less than desireable results so they learned to be more confident in the concept rather than what their brain told them.
In the GTR, it didn't matter, he turned in way too early, way too late and the car just went. So from what standpoint its hard to teach someone. You make a mistake like that in another car, your going to overshoot, go off, spin trying to correct, get the car upset, etc...so they learn from that especially when they see how mcuh faster a proper line is compared to what their brain thought was correct. Without being able to see and feel those mistakes its harder to explain to someone what to do.
Part of it was grip but the stability control system in that car is completely invisible. No grinding, no dramatic change in car direction or the back end suddenly coming in line, and no perceivable drop in speed either.
For being on street tires the grip leve was silly.
Inside the car you could not hear it shift or feel it shift, the tip from 60 to 120 was totally seemless. Outside the car the people said it shifted 3 times, all extremely quickly but inside nothing, no drop in power, no drop in boost, nothing at all.
IMO its an incredible value for what they charge.
It reminded me of my FD RX7. That thing would change direction instantly with little fanfare. You never think it would make it but if you trusted the car it would go. It was still unnerving because you never were sure of the grip level you had.
This car did the same thing, but at nearly 4,000lbs with us in it and enough electronics to make sure it worked.
He just came to see what the day was like and I offered him a lap in his car because everyone wanted to see the car go around the track.
I shouldn't say he didn't listen...he listened but then just did what he thought was right based on instinct.
I spent my time intructing yesterday for the first time really. My biggest issue was when a student started to drift away from the turn in point. They'd get nervous about turning in so late at the cone so they'd start to drift over on the track.
This always ended with less than desireable results so they learned to be more confident in the concept rather than what their brain told them.
In the GTR, it didn't matter, he turned in way too early, way too late and the car just went. So from what standpoint its hard to teach someone. You make a mistake like that in another car, your going to overshoot, go off, spin trying to correct, get the car upset, etc...so they learn from that especially when they see how mcuh faster a proper line is compared to what their brain thought was correct. Without being able to see and feel those mistakes its harder to explain to someone what to do.
Part of it was grip but the stability control system in that car is completely invisible. No grinding, no dramatic change in car direction or the back end suddenly coming in line, and no perceivable drop in speed either.
For being on street tires the grip leve was silly.
Inside the car you could not hear it shift or feel it shift, the tip from 60 to 120 was totally seemless. Outside the car the people said it shifted 3 times, all extremely quickly but inside nothing, no drop in power, no drop in boost, nothing at all.
IMO its an incredible value for what they charge.
It reminded me of my FD RX7. That thing would change direction instantly with little fanfare. You never think it would make it but if you trusted the car it would go. It was still unnerving because you never were sure of the grip level you had.
This car did the same thing, but at nearly 4,000lbs with us in it and enough electronics to make sure it worked.
Last edited by NoOne; 10-17-2009 at 09:23 AM.
10-17-2009, 09:22 AM
#11
Safety Car
Yup I 100% agree... I was running with one of these at VIR with the groups mazda and track daze. (I should say I was trying to keep up). After a few sessions I went to talk to the driver and he said he just has to put the hammer down and point the car, the computer takes car of the rest. While I am back there driving my A$$ off he probably has the AC On with the IPOD jamming to Yani lol. Point is .. 440 RWHP R6 tires generally speaking could not stick with him... Great fast awesome car....
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
But FYI ... If you are thinking about one and want to "mod" it check out the price for a cat back system on these babies
http://www.forgedperformance.com/store/home.php?cat=428
Good for you! Hope you upgraded pads also--tires sort of go w/the pads to a degree.I'm really surprised you couldn't run with him on 440rwhp and Hoosiers. Was he on street tires? You should have been able to stay w/ a C6Z on street tires.
Last edited by sothpaw2; 10-17-2009 at 09:44 AM.
10-17-2009, 11:06 AM
#12
Drifting
I am sure there was some driver skill there as well.... no joke though that car is fast he pulled on me on every straight he had more confidence in his car while braking later ect.... Just an all out fast car... :-) gonna save my 80K and keep my C5 Z always happy to give the point by and its free :-)
Last edited by RaleighSS; 10-17-2009 at 11:38 AM.
10-17-2009, 05:26 PM
#14
Safety Car
I am sure there was some driver skill there as well.... no joke though that car is fast he pulled on me on every straight he had more confidence in his car while braking later ect.... Just an all out fast car... :-) gonna save my 80K and keep my C5 Z always happy to give the point by and its free :-)
Was he on slicks though? That would help a lot w/the braking capability and many times a car w/slicks has other mods. A car on street tires is many times very close to stock.
As for skill--you seem pretty adept to me
Doesn't seem as though w/that car as described that they need as much skill. We need a lot more to manage the right foot to keep the rear planted!Yeah keep the Z--I can't imagine the pucker factor w/an $80k car!
10-17-2009, 06:49 PM
#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
The GTR I was in was 100 bone stock and it felt stickier than the R888's I had...I made a mistake in my first post, the GT had R888's.
Brakes were amazing, not sure how the pads would have held up to repeated laps though, it felt comparable to the GT which has the same brake setup as a Mustang Challenge car.
There were just a lot of impressive things about it. Especially for the money. For your 80K or whatever they are comapare that to the rest of the field at that price.
Interior wise was miles ahead of a C6Z for comparison.
Looked better in person but the exhaust was hideous, 4 huge what seemed to be 4" pipes out the back.
Reliability however is another matter...compare the reliability of the c6Z powertrain versus that of the GTR and two different things.
Honestly if I had a cash I'd seriously consider one, its about as dual purpose as it gets.
Brakes were amazing, not sure how the pads would have held up to repeated laps though, it felt comparable to the GT which has the same brake setup as a Mustang Challenge car.
There were just a lot of impressive things about it. Especially for the money. For your 80K or whatever they are comapare that to the rest of the field at that price.
Interior wise was miles ahead of a C6Z for comparison.
Looked better in person but the exhaust was hideous, 4 huge what seemed to be 4" pipes out the back.
Reliability however is another matter...compare the reliability of the c6Z powertrain versus that of the GTR and two different things.
Honestly if I had a cash I'd seriously consider one, its about as dual purpose as it gets.
10-17-2009, 09:21 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Cool... a car that requires no skill or line to lap fast... super duper. Seriously, I just don't get the GTR. Is it a technological masterpiece? Sure. Can it do things that almost defy physics? Guess so. But is that really what any of us want as track-day enthusiasts? I doubt it.
I want to be rewarded for driving well, and to have the feedback (negative and positive) necessary to improve my skills as a driver. If I have a car I can just pitch into ever turn way too hot, a mile off the apex, floor it, and let the computers figure out all the rest I might go fast and impress the fanboys, but I'm certainly not going to improve as a driver nor get the experience I'm after.
Let's face it: the technology is pretty much out there to make a car that could lap any given track on the "perfect" line at 10/10ths without a driver. The GTR removes the driver from the equation only slightly less.
-TJ
I want to be rewarded for driving well, and to have the feedback (negative and positive) necessary to improve my skills as a driver. If I have a car I can just pitch into ever turn way too hot, a mile off the apex, floor it, and let the computers figure out all the rest I might go fast and impress the fanboys, but I'm certainly not going to improve as a driver nor get the experience I'm after.
Let's face it: the technology is pretty much out there to make a car that could lap any given track on the "perfect" line at 10/10ths without a driver. The GTR removes the driver from the equation only slightly less.
-TJ
10-17-2009, 09:46 PM
#18
Drifting
10-17-2009, 10:12 PM
#19
Race Director
Cool... a car that requires no skill or line to lap fast... super duper. Seriously, I just don't get the GTR. Is it a technological masterpiece? Sure. Can it do things that almost defy physics? Guess so. But is that really what any of us want as track-day enthusiasts? I doubt it.
I want to be rewarded for driving well, and to have the feedback (negative and positive) necessary to improve my skills as a driver. If I have a car I can just pitch into ever turn way too hot, a mile off the apex, floor it, and let the computers figure out all the rest I might go fast and impress the fanboys, but I'm certainly not going to improve as a driver nor get the experience I'm after.
Let's face it: the technology is pretty much out there to make a car that could lap any given track on the "perfect" line at 10/10ths without a driver. The GTR removes the driver from the equation only slightly less.
-TJ
I want to be rewarded for driving well, and to have the feedback (negative and positive) necessary to improve my skills as a driver. If I have a car I can just pitch into ever turn way too hot, a mile off the apex, floor it, and let the computers figure out all the rest I might go fast and impress the fanboys, but I'm certainly not going to improve as a driver nor get the experience I'm after.
Let's face it: the technology is pretty much out there to make a car that could lap any given track on the "perfect" line at 10/10ths without a driver. The GTR removes the driver from the equation only slightly less.
-TJ
I have this argument about once a week at work with the fanboys. Usually it ends when they each claim that their 450something horsepower STI/EVO/Whatever will smoke my lowly C4 track car. I in turn tell them that anytime they want to take it to the track and prove it, I'm there.
...they never have.
Last edited by RedLS1GTO; 10-17-2009 at 10:14 PM.
10-17-2009, 10:46 PM
#20
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I was evaluating the car for what it was.
An 80K bone stock car, driver none withstanding, that can turn in incredible laps and is very forgiving.
Being able to evaluate something for what it is, that is what matters.
Someone in a FFR Cobra or something similar will probably say the same of someone who wants the 'ease' of driving a Corvette. There are similar cars to a Corvette that will turn in similar lap times but are way harder to drive...but are you flocking to get in one of those?
It was a cool car that did some amazing things, and at a decent price. There is tons of value in the vehicle from a performance standpoint.
An 80K bone stock car, driver none withstanding, that can turn in incredible laps and is very forgiving.
Being able to evaluate something for what it is, that is what matters.
Someone in a FFR Cobra or something similar will probably say the same of someone who wants the 'ease' of driving a Corvette. There are similar cars to a Corvette that will turn in similar lap times but are way harder to drive...but are you flocking to get in one of those?
It was a cool car that did some amazing things, and at a decent price. There is tons of value in the vehicle from a performance standpoint.