E.O.D.

Long story short, and without a lot of words (in the first post anyhow)..I'll do this in "bullet statement" form.

I have an 08 Z06.
I've never driven HPDE.
I've ridden HPDE at Road Atlanta and Roebling Road.
I want to do a few HPDE.

Thinking of getting an HPDE beater until I get confident.
Then I'll HPDE the Z06.
Local 1996 Mustang Cobra for sale for $3300, 92k miles.

Now some questions...

1. Grab the Cobra if its in good shape, use it as a learning platform for HPDE? (not looking to dump 6k in the suspension anytime soon, just a platform to learn with.)

2. Stear clear of Mustangs altogether and get a different low priced beater for HPDE?

3. Man up and drive the Z06?

My concern is using the C6Z as a learning tool, and cracking it up before I learn more about vehicle dynamics and whatnot. Also I've been told don't take a car out on the track that you aren't prepared to leave all over it...more or less.

Requirements for HPDE vehicle for me are V8 and RWD. And low price. And something I can drive to and from the track.

Please, guide me.

Thanks in advance.

2K3Z06

Drive the Z06. Start in the novice group, and work your way up, when you get faster. I tracked my car for years, just slow down little when you get to the track "hot spots". Such as turns with no run off or turns that have a lot of armco close to the edge of the track.

But yea, a dedicated track rat, something that wouldn't bring tears to your eyes, if you totaled it, would be less of a financial hit if something went terribly wrong.


Hpde is not racing, drive as fast as you feel comfortable with and have fun. A Z06 on a race track is one hellva good time.


Might try autocrossing first, to learn car control skills and if you overcook it, in a turn, you just whack some cones. No harm no foul.

Cheers,

wallyman424

You will be a much better driver if you start with a slower car. Not that there aren't people that can do it, but a c6z is really hard to just start out in.

I say, if the mustang is good, get it and beat the hell out of it. Get some track pads, track fluid, toyos and have a blast.

RaleighSS

I am by far no expert but I would think there are lots of guys including myself started out in a Z06 .... Keep all the Nannies on ..... stay in the green group .....take it easy .... and most important listen to your instructor and things will be fine.

63Corvette

OK my feeling is that you could get a lot of safety gear etc for $3300. I don't think the Mustang and Vette will handle close enough for you to get a feel. Consumables will be a given for either car.
I guess my recommendation is that for $3300 your "best" investment would be to take that and get a three day driver's school in a Corvette of your choice. In addition, partly due to the economy, and partly to the time of year, you can get a GREAT deal for various driver's schools (I am NOT a member and have no connection). Anyway, that's my suggestion. Please let us know how it works out.

fcarga

Not counting safety equipment, you are risking $70,000 vs $3300. Doesn't really seem like much of a choice to me. Take "63Corvette's" advice-won't do so much for the old ego at first, but in a year or two I'd bet you will be happier!

bobmoore2

Take a driver's school. I see way too many drivers at HPDEs that are driving much faster than their skill level, because they have never really learned how to handle a car in a slide/spin. And I don't mean a race driving school, I mean an advanced street driving school. What you want is a school that concentrates on car control, not on racing.

Here are three examples in the Southwest. I'm sure you can find something similar in your region of the country. Two of these are conducted in C6 Corvettes, which is a little better for you, but not necessary.

http://www.skipbarber.com/driving_sc...ng_school.aspx

http://www.bondurant.com/high_perfor...ng_courses.php

http://www.springmountainmotorsports...ols-level-one/

Bob

JimbeauZ06

Don't buy the Mustang.

DE the Z06.

Schools are great and you should go if you can.

If you find the right club (I recommend PCA) to DE with, you can get quality classroom and on-track instruction (many of the instructors are licensed racers) in a highly structured, safe environment as a supplement to the school.

Repeat after me:

DE the Z06
DE the Z06
DE the Z06.............

jaa1992

Not familiar with the 96 GT - does it have a solid rear axle?
If its a solid rear its a different car than the Corvette.

I tracked my 2001 V6 Mustang off and on for the last 4 years. It didn't have the horses to keep up on the straights, once I upgraded shocks, springs wheels and tires I could keep up with anything in the turns. (My suspension parts can be available for a good price ) When I wrecked it, it was no problem walking away from the $3k I bought it for and the $2500 in suspension changes.

If you don't get the Mustang give me the info - I need a new DD so I can finish making the Corvette a track rat.

E.O.D.

I figured I'd get mixed replies on this. I'm aware that anything other than a vette isn't going to drive like one. My main concern is risking cracking up the 08Z by using it as an "initial" learning platform.

I've tried many times to get in contact with the Cobra owner, but am not getting any return emails or phone calls. I have found several Mustang GT's and a few LT1 F-bods for around the same price. I'll be making contact on a couple of those.

Thanks much for the feedback so far. Still looking at both options.

spazegun2213

I'm going to agree with Wally here. Start with a slower car, something that you can walk away from. You are JUST beginning, and you can learn the fundamentals in ANY car. You can then apply them to faster/slower/heavier/lighter/etc cars, and be just fine. Once you get enough time under your belt and you want to take the Z out there, have AT!

I guess my point is $3300 is cheap, and you can have a blast with it! Seats, harnesses, and roll bar will set you back another 2K (if you want to) and thats all I'd recommend for that car. So if the worst does happen, how would you feel walking away from a $5000 car, vs a car with 10x times that? When you are done with it, turn around and sell it and be out next to nothing.

As for driving schools like skip barber and what not, thats a LOT of money for a weekend worth of fun. Thats nearly 10 weekends of nasa HPDE, and I think you'll be a much better driver after 10 HPDE weekends, than one drivers school.

Oh, also anyone who thinks that starting in a slower/different car will "effect" your driving abilities seriously needs to drive other cars. I've driven everything i can get my hands on and I'd have to say I'm a better driver because of it. By driving other cars, you know how to combat different characteristics.

L98Terror

I started with a Modded C4 went to a stock 1991 Maxima best move I ever made than to an 03 Z06.

You will learn more is a slow reliable car and you will learn it faster.

If you start is a 08 Z06 you will probably never get to the limit of that car

Z06_BluByU

stock lt1 corvette C4's can be had around 8k...

mrc24x

The only problem I see with buying the Mustang is that you are going to be dumping more cash into it just to make it reliable for the track.

I think a cheap CMC car would be the way to go. It will be cheaper than the Mustang in the long run and it will be worth more when it's time to sell. In this situation, a full race car w/ a logbook will hold it's value better than a half built track car.

I saw this one in person at Putnam, it's perfect and the owners / builders are super nice guys. $7000-7500 (I'm sure there are more like it for sale)

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....st=0&sk=t&sd=a

I also agree about slower cars make better drivers....that's why I drive an L98.

E.O.D.

I thought about a CMC car, but I need something I can drive to and from the track. I have no trailer, no tow vehicle.

flycastinguy

I was in your exact same situation when I started 2 years ago ... an already modified C6Z and ZERO experience. There's never a shortage of opinions here, and FWIW, here's mine.

The best money I've spent so far in this hobby has been to start at the 3-day school at Spring Mountain. I'd never been on track before then. Was it "expensive?" I guess so, but so is everything else you'll do in tracking a car regularly. For me, the confidence gained knowing that I was taught the right way of doing things in a planned 3-day program was huge. There's a big difference between what I experienced at Spring Mountain and novice instruction with NASA, Chin, PBOC and the like since. That's not to be critical of those organizations, they do a great job given the relatively short amount of time they have with you at an event. But doing a 45 minute classroom session, then being thrown on track with 25 other cars for the first time, especially with all the power you have at your disposal can be intimidating at best. I'll bet I would have spent the same money as Spring Mountain just doing DE's to gain the basic knowledge and confidence that I left there with. For me, it was the right way to start. Every time I go to the track I'm glad I did it.

As for my C6Z, personally it was too much car to comfortably learn to track in. Sold it, bought a C5Z and now having a ball.

Good luck.

Bob

socalspringmountain

I agree with 63Corvette, a driving school is the best upgrade any performance driver can make. I've seen too many 600+HP cars that were slower than stock. Not because the car was slow, but the driver did not know how to handle it.

A stock Z06 is more car than most people can handle. HPDE can be safe for your primary car, provided you stay within your limits. Every accident I've seen at HPDE have been caused by the driver pushing way outside their limit. I don't think I've ever seen car-to-car contact at a HPDE. Races are different.

If your looking for a beater car to use at HPDE, I would recommend a Miata. They are inexpensive, well balanced, low power and will teach you a great deal about momentum and car control. The one thing it won't teach you is the danger of smashing the throttle on the Vette. Smooth application of the throttle is VERY important in a high horse power car like the Z06. As you transition to your Vette, you will want to remember to apply the throttle slowly.

If your interested in discussing school options, you can contact Donna or Melinda at 800-391-6891. Or you can PM or email me.

Flycastguy, we are glad you had a good time at Spring Mountain. Thanks for the props!


Take Care,

Ken

dpd3672

I couldn't agree more, I've had 3 Miatas in the last 15 years, a '91, a '92, and an '02. I still have the '91, highly modified now.

There really is no better track car for the money. They handle fantastic out of the box, and can be upgraded to almost world class handling very inexpensively. They'll survive a lot of abuse, are easy and cheap to fix, and you can get them for a song. They're capable of more than most drivers can give them; the only weak point is they're not fast in a straight line like a Corvette. The skills you'll learn compensating for that, however, will easily translate to whatever you drive.

For $2-3k you can get a pretty solid car to play with, one that you could take to the track that day. Another $1000 and you'll have great tires and a fully upgraded suspension. For another $1500-3000 you can add forced induction to make it go. Believe me, 200hp in a well handling, 2000lb car, is enough to make most drivers the weak link in the chain.

They're also great on gas and a blast to drive daily.

JMO,
Dave

E.O.D.

Never got a reply email on the Cobra, and the persons phone mailbox has been full. I've tried calling on different days, same result. I'm assuming it's either not an accurate posting, or the whole post is garbage.

I've continued my search in the realm of LT1 F-bodies and 4.6 Mustangs. I think I've settled on the thought of getting a 1996-1998 Mustang GT. From all I've read they don't have heat issues during the events and they seem to last rather well. The engine bay is easier to work in also.

Not to mention that if I later decide to turn this into a CMC car, I'd much rather perfer to optimize up, than tune down.

2K3Z06

Sounds like the money you would blow on mustang might be better spent at spring mountain or bounderant.

Once you drive the Z06 on track, you'll forget all about that mustang.

enjoy