kwhiteside

Anybody else doing crazy analysis like this?

So after thinking about the track and reviewing my in car video, I have come up with 3 areas of the track that I was not taking full advantage of.

If any of you are intimate with the Barber track, please chime in.

Here is the track.


My first of three observations are for turns 7 and 8.

I clipped a 20 second video showing you what I noticed.

http://www.vimeo.com/7219060

Notice how after unwinding from 7a, I actually give some left input at 7b to setup for 8.

This tells me I've got room to do these turns much better.
a. by moving left before the sharp right, I'm unsettling the car a bit
b. if I were already over full left, I could hit 8 better and get harder into the gas for the next straight.
c. to get over full left more, I could do any combo of the following. Take turn faster, brake later/less, take preceding straight faster, earlier apex.

My instructor kept telling me for two days how he makes this one big right turn. Here it is a week later and I'm just now getting it, duh

I'll post the second part up if anybody bothers sharing feedback with me.

Ken . . .

SIK02SS

never been on Barber so I can't give direction in that way.

what I can say is that when you are going through the corner faster, assuming your line is the same, you won't just come out wider, but further down the track as well. This also shortens your distance and time to get the car rotating for the next corner. Being that in 7/8 here your hands are going R-L-R, that second right will be coming a lot quicker than before with less time to react

Was that your first time on a track before, or just first at Barber?

That's good you are looking back and analyzing this. It makes you more familiar with what your habits are they you may need to fix, as well as finding where you have more room on the track

kwhiteside

First time at Barber. Have 5 days at Road Atlanta and 6 days at Roebling Road also.

I'm thinking I can go into that 7a with more speed, perhaps even earlier apex, try to just hold straight over that gator at 7b, and then be better setup to turn sharply into 8 with more gas quicker for the upcoming straight.

Even though I don't think I did it as good as I could, lots of drivers were treating that like a true 'S' and avoiding the left gator. I usually gained a ton thru there getting on the gas early would guarantee a pass.

We are not racing though

SIK02SS

You can also carry more speed through and out of 8 looks like you had a few feet still before you were at the edge of the track coming off 8..

sperkins

I can't see the video from here in the office, but I usually try to straight line through there as much as possible using a lot of the left side curbing. If there is any left input, it is very minimal.

quick04Z06

When I used to run Barber in my Camaro SS and later my 04 Z06, the trick to that series of turns 7 and 8 was to slow and make your initial right-hander tight against the 7 apex, then straighten the series out--running over the curbing and you can basically go straight to the bottom--get to the bottom, and then slide (with as much speed you as you can control) and brake into position on that back straight, and off you go. I sometimes got a little tail-out there, and it is a fine line between enough and too much oversteer. Too much is slow, and you can get into trouble.

I looked at your video and what I suggest above is what you seem to be doing. You seem plenty fast at this spot. My only comment is you might be able to slide a little more at the bottom of the slope--maybe you clip that inside curb a little more at the end of the sequence to help your car rotate and get on the gas earlier. Of course, you can spin, too.


I rode with an SCCA racer in a race-prepped BMW and he showed me how it is done. I will say, what he did would be rough on a street car and certainly would increase wear on a race car, too. However, it works. I used as much of his technique as I dared, considering I did not have an unlimited racing budget to repair my car after it trundled over the curbing.

Generally, I think you were on and off the gas a little too much overall. Coming on to the front straight, for example, you got on, then off, then back on the throttle, rather than smoothly rolling into the throttle and staying there, which I think is quicker. You need to go into the last turn smoothly, and early enough to track out cleanly without having to lift off. That said, you seemed pretty good to me.

In one of your films, I saw the instructor reach over and grab your wheel! Wow, I would be upset. That is dangerous!

The Panther

Good stuff. I am headed to Barber in a week and I always try to analyze everything I am doing. Post the second part up if you've got it.

kwhiteside

Funny you mention that, because I had discovered the curb trick, and was using the inside curbs sometimes to keep me tight and flip my rear end out a bit. My instructor REALLY didn't like that so I stopped doing it. Since I put 335's on the rear, I have not had any problems controlling the rear. If I get a little lose, quick correction and it grabs right back in.

kwhiteside

So you go around 12 and up the blind to track left. It's really a bit intimidating in this area because first you deal with the blind to far track left, then you are thinking about the second part of 14 where you need to nail a trail brake. So I found myself coming down 13 as shown in the video at maintenance throttle and a bit tenantive thinking about what is coming up.

http://www.vimeo.com/7224592

I had a couple faster guys pass me in this area and it amazed me how fast they went thru here. Looking back, I could have taken 13 much faster, perhaps even full throttle. As you can see in the video, if you are intimate with that turn, I really needed to be a few feet more left to nail the second part of 14.

Barber is a really fun track. Will take some guts to get on it here between these two points, but I think it is safely doable.

no spin

Looks pretty good but after you apex 7 you should be hard on the gas till after the curb then brake and use all of the track thru 8 / 8a.

Jason

Best I recall, on good tires, you can go flat from 12 into 14. I keep the right side tires on the seam. You're car position is about right at 14a, you just need a later turn-in, which will take a little trail-brake/powerslide/whatever-it-takes to make the car rotate there to stay tight to the right to set up 15.

Really just carry all the speed you can into 14, survive 14a, and be set-up right for 15.

Turn 7a, drill the curb, hope you land before you hit the museum.

But what do I know, I got beat by an Elise last time I was there.

no spin

You need to be alot further left on 14 for the DE line.

kwhiteside

Now you've done it. The DE line?? I was just amazed at how most the novice guys would actually steer way left there, I would be on their tail, then they would just go way off to the left for a right turn. I'm like, what the heck is he doing, I have to practically come to a stop to wait for him to come back. So I'm not sure what the dE line is, but I just want to discuss the best / fastest line. If it's hard or advanced, it is what it is and I have to learn it.

I admit I struggled with the turn for 2 days. The whole timing of everthing and the trail braking was quite tricky. I kept trying to find some marker to use. My instructor kept telling me to brake when I saw the red cone, but that was way way too early. If I did it there I wouldn't be going fast enough at turn in to slide the rear around at all. Look forward to another day at that turn. I do think being out further to start with will help that turn, but I'm not talking about way wide like most were being tought, just wide enought do get the right angle on the slide.

kwhiteside

That brought a laugh because it did feel like my wheels left ground a few times through there. This stuff is so fun, still can't believe they let us do this . Anyway, my instructor kept telling me he would get his left wheels part way on the grass there. I never tried it because it looked like the car would bottom out. What do you think, can you safely get over that far?

Jason

I've had 2 in the grass there and didn't bottom. FYI, your brakes suck on grass.

FlamingZ06

If you go full throttle from the top of the hill to the apex of 13, I can promise you that you will NOT make that turn.

Jason

13's the bottom of the hill with the concrete pad at the apex, right?

FlamingZ06

That's correct.

kwhiteside

I'm already half throttle, keep in mind I'm in 3rd gear (listen to my enging access down the hill http://www.vimeo.com/7224592 ). There is a lot of track between that pad and 14. Full throttle would have only got me 5mph more I believe. I would have found myself further out going faster and in a better position for the trail brake. Of course the risk gets higher and you really have to nail the turn, but oh man, that's why we are out there isn't it. It would be one of those whooo hoooo, hang on turns.

It's not like you will hit 140 heading to 10a at Road Atlanta.

Perhaps one of you Traqmate guys can tell me how fast one goes thru there before braking? I'm guessing 70-90mph with me being on the lower side.

Ok, this is embarassing, but one of those little VW's passed me there and he had to be going 90+. I mean ***** to the walls.

FlamingZ06

I have driven over 10K miles at Barber and instructed another 10K. I have gone 1:38:xx in my C6. When you get ready to take that segment at WOT, let me know, cause I want to be there to see it.