TGiuliante

I currently own a Porsche and i am ready to step up. The car will mainly be used for the track and occasional street driving. I am considering the Z06 or a GT3. I have read great things about the Z06 and love the car however in the research that I do I find the following consistent issues about the car.
1) the car does not give the driver feedback to where you can drive it to its limits. Supposedly at its limits the chasis feedback is not as clear as the gt3's in the comparison that I read. The rear wants to come out on you.
2) Steering and brake pedal feel is numb.

Like I sain and I am not knocking this car at all - for the track drivers is the above true? Will mods correct this?

i do not in my carerra once I learned the car I understand the feedback it gives me through the chassis, brakes and steering however a lot of articles say the Z06 is unpredictible.

Any input you can provide me with will be very much appreciated.
thanks,
Tom

spazegun2213

Tom, might help for you to quote a year for that z06. is it a c5 or c6?

The c5's as street cars, are a little numb for me. However, as race cars/track cars, i see them as the best (smile + mph)/$ cars out there. With 315's all the way around the steering is no longer as vague as the horrid run flats. Upgrade the suspension, and its not unpredictable, in fact mine is one of the most predictable cars I've ever driven. As for the brakes, you really just need good pads, and fluid. They are not porsche brakes, but they are not kia brakes either. Messing around with a BBK and new MC will also help.

The cars are really apples to oranges. The Porsche is a great track car, great motor, coupled to a perfectly geared tranny, with a solid chassis. The Corvette is like a linebacker, yes, its stupid fast, its HUGE, but it can also be VERY nimble when you want it to be.

L98Terror

Really depends on what you are used to, quick story about a C6 Z06 (I assume you mean C6 although a C5 Z IMO is the best bang for the buck hands down). I was instructing someone in a C6 Z and he just wasn't able to "feel" the car, I was able to "feel" it from the passenger seat and tell him the corrective actions before he even started to react. After offering a few times I finally jumped behind the wheel it was stock down to the tires, I felt the car was very easy to drive and with in one lap I felt I was lappsing as fast with his car than I was with my C5Z with Race Tires (I won the 07 NASA TTA National Championship in that car to give you a idea of how fast we were going) We came on track about 1/2 mile behind his buddy in a prepped WRX and were able to run him down and drive away in a 20 minute session. He had never passed him before.

Now I have never driven a GT3 but have passed many in my almost stock C5Z06, my feeling is that those that think the C6 Z isn't a truely awesome car probably are over their head when they get in the seat.

I surprising had little problem getting the power down on street tires but I'm also used to running my C5Z with 275s out back so I have a light right foot.

TGiuliante

I would be looking at a problably a 2007 Z06

TGiuliante

rustyguns - what year and model 911 did you have? Any mods? How would you compare the two cars in terms of handling and learning the car?

96CollectorSport

He's talking about the Porsche GT3, not the Nissan GT-R.

You will have to make a few mods to the Z06 to make it as trouble free as the Porsche. Put a brake kit on the Z06, and upgrade the dry sump system, seats and harnesses then you would be ready to go. However the GT3 would be ready to go pretty much right out of the box.

ScaryFast

Here, buy this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corve...item20ae45b278

Ken, didn't a C4 chase you down that day you drove the C6Z? The answer is clear: C4 FTW!

Bill Dearborn

I can't make any comparisons to the GT3 other than I was able to run equally with one last year when I had my 03Z which has a 100 HP less than a C6Z.

People that drive other cars regularly complain the steering has no feedback. I have been driving Corvettes for over 30 years and haven't noticed that problem. I think once you get used to the steering you will be able to get the feedback you need while driving. It is just different than other cars. Maybe if I hopped into a P car and drove it I would be bothered by its steering due it being different than my Vette.

I purchased my 08Z in August. What I noticed after driving the 03Z on the track for 6 years was a lot of power. The 08 tends to get a little light in the rear on turn 3 in the esses at Watkins Glen so I have to back off the throttle just a hair. In turn 7 the toe of the boot I can't power out at full throttle as I could the C5Z but the extra power may have something to do with that. Also I used to run R compound tires on the C5Z while I drove the 08 with well worn EMTs for the 10 track days I got in this year. On a rough street the backend of the car will bounce around more than my C5 did. It may be because of the stiff rear spring or due to the EMTs which are very stiff. The C5Z didn't come with EMTs and didn't bounce as much as the 08. Next year I intend to tweak the rear alignment a little more and I think the backend will settle down.

Braking is great with the right pads but pads and rotors are expensive compared to a C5Z. I went with a set of Cobalt Friction single piece pads for $700 which lasted me 6+ track days. Rotors shipped to my house ran about $380 for all 4. When I bought the car it had 13K miles on the original pads and rotors. The original pads were gone by the end of the first track day and I used some borrowed HP+ pads for 3 days until I could get the Cobalt pads. The rotors were all replaced by the 7th track day.

I run in the instructor groups and I can say this car is fast. I am hitting speeds at the end of the straights that are 5 to 8 mph faster than I did with the C5Z on R compound tires. It feels like there is no end to the power.

Did I mention the power? That power addicts very quickly. I was very pleased with my C5Z and thought I would miss it. Once I tasted the power of the new car I totally forgot about the C5. A lot of people are switching to these cars for track days and they all seem to be happy with them. Maybe it has to do with being able to run away and hide from most of the other cars on the track.

Bill

AU N EGL

Can you afford to wad the car up and walk away ?

if not, buy a C5Z06 and learn to drive that to the limit.

Then you will know so many of us keep the C5s.

95jersey

As a road race instructor that uses a C6Z06, as well as having instructed and driven several Porsche's. The whole numbness thing is totally blown out of proportion.

Here is the real reason to choose a Corvette Z06 over a Porsche for the track:

1) Consumables are MUCH cheaper (brakes, rotors, wheels, parts in general)
2) The car is a 1/3rd of the price for close or equal performance (note that in the last comparison, a used 2006 Z06 still be a new 2009 turbo Porsche around Legana)
3) Relaibility of the C6 Corvettes is awesome, so no longer a draw back as in previous years...they are not Swiss Watch quality, but you can beat the car for hundreds and hundreds of race laps with very little wear or abuse.
4) Upgrades are extremely cost effective. You can find an awesome low mileage used Z for $45k, and with the money you save, if you dump just $10k into the car (HP, brakes, suspension), you are now WAY beyond GT3 level for still way less money.

If you take a Z06 of the same year and a GT3 price them out and use the money you save on the Corvette in upgrade $$$$, you will be Enzo fast.

I have less than $10k into my car and I have not seen a club race prepped Porsche car even come close to keep up (let alone street Porsche).

But you won't get the oohh's and aaahhh's you get from a Porsche, for that you have to pay another $50k than a Corvette.

billy25us

C6 Z06. I run down gt3's in my stock C6. I drove the new Z06's at Spring Mountain and I dought a gt3 can hold a candle. Plus the upkeep and maintance on the p-car would be a deal killer for me.

JimbeauZ06

I own a Boxster S (my wife's car ) and a C5Z. I'm a PCA member and do most of my HPDE with PCA and I can tell you that I pass GT3s a lot more often than I get passed. There's no doubt the GT3, especially the RS is one of the best in the world and I plan to own one at some point, but I really love my Z too and I still think the C5Z is an unbeatable performance value especially as a track car.

I get asked by the Porshe owners what the differences are between the Z and the P. The steering feel and the overall "connectedness" to the road are definitely superior in the Porsche. I don't find the Z06 steering numb, it's just less precise, especially in stock form. A little suspension and alignment tuning make a world of difference in the Z and definitely narrows the gap IMO.

The main drawback with the GT3 is that even if you can afford to purchase it, many folks can't afford to maintain it, especially as a track car. As mentioned the consumables are pricey, but so is everything else. A friend and PCA member that I go to the track with got what we all thought was an excellent deal on an '04 GT3. He has since sunk at least 10k into repairs, more than making up for the "deal" he got on it.

I for one think you can't loose either way. They're both incredible performers and both come with some trade-offs. Good luck and let us know which way you go.

mikahb

I'm sure you would expect that by asking this question on the Corvette Forum, the majority of answers would favor the Vette - which has been the case thus far. I would say that the choice depends on what your goals are.

Buying a Porsche makes some sense because it's more inline with what you're accustomed to, it's a beautiful car and relativley easy to drive up to and on the limit, and will certainly be a reliable track day toy. Your Porsche buddies will respect you for "keeping it in the family" and wlil talk about how it was a "close call" that you almost bought one of those crude, loud, imprecise, auspicious Corvettes.

If you want to go FAST... If you want to learn the fine sensations of actually driving a car to its limits and dancing with it even when it doesn't really want to... If you want to feel the transformation that an alignment and some good track tires bring about in an otherwise comfortable streetable monster, then a C6Z is your car. In addition to blowing the doors off of many of your Porsche buds, you'll also inherit a whole new cast of some of the greatest car guys in the world - the Corvette crowd.

Were it me - I'd go C6Z all the way. Unless, that is, I decided to take a C5Z which is an EXCEPTIONAL track car (and will still pass most GT3's) and add a little aero, brakes, and some safety stuff. Whoooeeee that would be a great track car.

Pretty hard to go wrong no matter what you decide. Good luck!

davidfarmer

I learned to race in Vettes, and when I drive Porsches (I owned a 996 Turbo) I HATED it. Friends that learned on Porsches seem to hate the way Corvettes drive.

Both are very capable, but very different machines. My gut tells me that you should stick with what you are used to UNLESS you want the challenge of leaning to drive completely differently.

wallyman424

Buddy of mine DE's a GT3. He hates the cost of pads/rotors (and believe me, the are astronomically expensive). He also says the car is frightening to drive at the limit.

Why anyone would want that, I do not know.

kentz06

I previously owned and tracked a 1999 911 C2 and have had several opportunities to drive 996 & 997 GT3s. I have a theory about the "feel" thing.

The Porsche is narrower in tire width and wheel base. It also has all that weight way out in the back acting as a pendulum. This makes the car much more reactive to inputs. I still marvel how much the car can be throttle steered with micro movements of the throttle pedal. Never going to happen with the Z with the more even weight balance, wider stance and bigger tires.

Had the Chiefs Driving Instructor of both Washington and Oregon as passengers and then solo drivers of my car last summer. One said that it was the most fun driving he had all year (his car is a nice 993 Turbo). The other sold his Cayman (after replacing the motor under warranty) and is currently starting the safety mod process on his new C6 Z06. Fortunately I have found no car snobbery in the Northwest PCA groups, and I instruct a ton for them.

If I had the $$$ would I get another Porsche? Hell yes! But no doubt I would keep the Z as well.

Dean

worldsaway

I've owned 3 911's, a 944 turbo S, and 4 vette's. My '04 Z06 is one of the finest cars I've ever owned. One thing that was different about the P cars was they were tight and precise, something that at 100k miles shows up big time. I think that some car designs just come together right to make extraordinary cars, they're just right. The 930 turbo was just right, but the C5 and C6 Z06 may go down in history as the best performance cars for the $ ever built.

Jason

If I had the means, I get the GT3.

fej

I think it comes down to two main concepts, do you REALLY want a track only car? And can you afford to ball it up, walk away, and re-load?

If you went the true track car route, I would have to think the C5z offers the best combination of purchase price, consumable cost, performance, and upgrade path. It is all just easier, with better gains per dollar spent, and much less expensive to "repair or replace" should the unfortunate happen.

If you want to occasionally track the car, drive it to work on friday in the summer etc, both the GT3 and C6z are excellent options, and IMO comes down to preference.

P cars are expensive to buy, upgrade, and replace consumables, they have a higher "tax" than the corvette tax we all pay.

$15-30k gets you a wide range of sorted C5z track cars with solid reliability (some of which are for sale on this very forum). A $10,000 per year consumable budget would net a large amount of fun in that car. And you would be "racing for free" vs the purchase price of the P car for 2-3 years.

Like most things, figure out what your end goal is, and then figure out what the comfortable $$$ figure is, and pull the trigger and have fun

Fej

drivinhard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tT3n2yzEa4

Classic:

"The 911 GT3 is designed for occasional racing use, the 911 GT3 RS for the occasional trip by road"

First time I went to VIR I road in an instructor's GT3 and still joke that I had more steering feel riding in that than driving my C5