ho428

We are looking at having an Open Vintage Class for 2010.
Any 1975 or older Race legal car will be eligible. Foreign or Domestic. (See NASA rules for required Safety gear)

We will have three Hp-Wt Classifications. More rules to follow as we get more interested parties. The season starts at CMP in February. We hope to grow this class for 2010 and beyond as a place for the Vintage cars to compete against each other.

If you are interested please contact the NASA-SE director.

sperkins

Sweet - I'll be there. I'd love to see you guys hammer it out.

73-84 IMSA Widebody

It would be great to see NASA add some vintage classes and provide another venue for vintage racers. I think you will find the racefans thrilled to see some real vintage iron....or fiberglass as the case may be

63Corvette

Vintage racing IS the fastest growing form of autoracing. I am currently a member of several different sanctioning organizations.....all members of the Vintage Motorsports Council, So....will my Comp license be recognized by NASA, or will I be required to join NASA in order to participate in their events?

varkwso

You will have to join NASA ($45) and buy their comp license ($70 good for a calender year) - they recognize most sanctioning bodies race license.

wwpete

As a tag along class it should work. Stand alone events are having a hard time paying for the track let alone making money. There are vintage clubs competing with each other for the same weekends.
Another problem will be safety requirements. You wont get a guy with an historic car to put a current spec roll cage into it.

rfn026

There are a lot of sanctioning groups trying to pay the bills with vintage racers. One problem is the prep rules are all over the map. We're going to need to know a lot more before people can make a decision.

In the meantime Crap Car Racing, like the 24 Hours of LeMons, is booming. The budgets are low and the amount of track time is huge. We now have a new alternative.

Richard Newton
Intervention Motorsports

ho428

I would think the NASA Vintage class might be more for the guy that wants to take an old hulk and make a vintage racer out of it rather than someone running an original vintage race car with a pedigree. But I'm sure some might take their true vintage racer out.

NASA rules won't have the strict period correctness that other santioning bodies have since they use pwr to wt for classing so some modifications are allowed. They'll be looking at the safety aspects more than anything.
I see plenty of 60's to early 70's cars at NASA events, but no where near legal for true Vintage racing and forced to run in classes where they're not competitive due to running against modern cars.
An Open Vintage class would put similar technology together.

Speed Direct

That sounds pretty interesting. What modifications are you envisioning would be allowed? Especially in the suspension and steering department.

ho428

Right now it looks like changing to tubular a-arms, dropped spindles, aftermarket brakes and any brand tires. Engines and trans can be anything with the Pwr to wt rule.
Pretty much any mod that would commonly be done.

I'd think as long as the original style frame and suspension pick up points are used, not sure about full frame swaps like a detroit speed rear link system and rack and pinion in a 69 Camaro.
Tires would have to stay inside the fenders, nor sure what the rules would say about flaring, they might just put a max wheel width rule in. Maybe a min ride ht.

I would also assume that if someone brings a full pro built style car that is capable of competing in something like GT-S or AI-Extreme the race director may move them there.

But being a new class they are many questions I can't answer. I'm hoping to get clarification from Jim Pantas (regional director) soon.

63Corvette

The Vintage Sanctioning organizations that I hold a comp license with require "Period Preparation". That would mean that your car preparation would be limited to mods available and legal during the time period that your car was new and raced (C2 limited to 1963 thru 67 rulebook)
Fabricated suspension and unobtanium parts with monster motors are specifically prohibited. These are allowed in some "run whatcha brung" events like the Mitty, and the former (but NOT current) BRIC. At the last BRIC there was a 1963 Corvette coupe whose lap times would have qualified him for the middle of the last CanAm field! I don't want to be racing with people like that.
Speaking only for myself, I would NOT be interested in running with a new group if the rules are as stated above. There are already plenty of sanctioning organizations affiliated witht he Vintage Motortsports Council......and more trying to jump on the Vintage bandwagon every day.

BrianCunningham

there's vintage racing

then there's vintage 'look' racing.

either side can be hard to right rules for.
Do all the parts have to be period?
are you allowed to put a C4 suspension and LSX engine into a C3?

Hopefully common sense will prevail so people can just have some fun.

ho428

Writing rules is a PITA no doubt.

The point of this class is not to draw cars away from other series but to give the average guy a place to build and run a 1975 or older car without having to adhere to strict period correct rules or having to gut his car and spend lots of money. Like was said, there are plenty of places to do both of those.

Part of this new NASA class comes from seeing several Vintage cars having to run in various classes since there is no Vintage class in NASA. All the cars have some sort of modification, nothing major, they are more "personalized" than anything. But these guys have no class for themselves to run within NASA and being older technology they really can't compete against more modern cars without serious modifications. Nor can they compete in the unlimited classes offered in other series.

As far as someone running with an ultra built unlimited race car, it's to the discretion of the NASA race director to keep the fields competitive. Bring a Shotgun to a paint ball fight and you'll probably get moved to another class.

And like Brian said, everyone just wants to have some fun, but at least have a chance of being competitive.
However, you will always have someone willing to spend more money and push the rules limit no matter what the organization, just to win a $5 Trophy.

63Corvette

Brian there is a Vintage organization with rules to satisfy whatever your taste in Vintage racecars is. However, in those which I participate in, it's all about the CARS! If your goal is a RACING driver career, then there are other venues (than Vintage) for you to follow.
Many here have never seen a "real" 250 GTO or factory competition Cobra. I get to race with all of them. How many of them would be willing to come out and race their beautiful cars (last October a 250 GTO sold for $30 million) if they have to race against drivers whose sole goal is to "WIN" in modified cars; (perhaps) Corvettes with 750hp motors and race setup? Clearly a person who can afford to buy and race a $30 million car can also afford to "cheat" and modify it to win in a manner that is undetectable. However, it would not be an original 250 GTO, but a modern racecar.....right. My children (and grandchildren) have been privileged to see these great cars on track, and to meet the gentlemen who drive and own them. It is my hope to preserve this type of glorious action for future generations to enjoy. Imagine a future without these priceless cars:-(

redvetracr

Garrett,
I have to disagree with you, Vintage racing is all about money and politics, know the right people and they look the other way when someone cheats...that 63 you speak of might have gone fast enough to put him on a Can-Am grid but what they don`t tell you is the next year the SVRA "aproved" Corvette of Peter Klutt went even faster...In SCCA racing 63-67 Corvettes were allowed to upgrade to 68-72 specs in Steve Earles world 68-72 A/P & B/P Corvettes don`t exist...maybe one reason why he is gone from the Monterey event, that and his propensity of picking winners. I will also say from experience I would much rather race against a guy like Mike Donahue (driver of the 63 you speak of) than a back marker in a period correct car trying to keep 40+ year old junk together. And speaking of motors made of unobtanium what about the guy racing the phony ex Bondurant ZO-6 who got caught cheating and was asked to pack up and go home at a west coast event?? If he didn`t have a famous name and a TON of Money Steve Earle probably wouldn`t have ever accepted his entry to Monterey...
HN

63Corvette

"than a back marker in a period correct car trying to keep 40+ year old junk together"

Hi Howard. I resemble that remark

For those who don't know him, Redvetracr is an outstanding Vintage racer. Nevertheless, we agree to disagree on this matter, as I continue to believe that Vintage Racing is about the CARS, not the Racin.

varkwso

A racer cheat? Even a big money vintage racer? Makes them sound like all the racers I know...

I truly love the vintage cars with provenance and seeing them out there running is really wonderful - it will never happen for me - but I do love that some people can.

The "made cars" and the numerous older cars (with wildly varying mods) currently doing DEs or race series also want a venue. The rules will be a compromise or else car counts will be low. When the rules settle down someone will build a "vintage" car to the rules and blow everyone else away - amazing what racers will do for a piece of plastic.

NASA Vintage would run in a combined race group regionally - I know they will in the southeast.

63Corvette

If I'm beating a dead horse here, please excuse me. However, I think we are ONLY talking about Group 6 vintage racing here on this Forum. Group 6 (Corvettes, GT350s, Cobras, XK-Es and Tigers) are only a small faction of the Vintage Race scene. NO ONE is fabricating or cheating on Bugatti Type 35s, Porsche 917-30K/Ls, or 962s....or ANY F1 car. In fact, only a very small number of drivers alive are even capable of driving any of these cars anywhere near their limits.

Now there are a number of Forum members here who appear to be referring to "OLD CAR" racing......not Vintage RACEcar racing. SCCA or NASA IT classes based on HP/weight ratio or other criteria are fine for those people. For RACE cars, with provenance, there is Vintage racing. Look again at the picture I posted above, and ask yourself if those are the people that you race with, or those that you would LIKE to take your peers to see race in the future.

ho428

If you're wanting to protect the word "Vintage" that's just semantics.

We're talking and referring to cars comparable to the Original Trans-Am series, not Can-Am, but they would be welcome. I'd really like to see the pwr-wt ratio dyno sheet on a few of those.

If someone doesn't want to take their old car that was originally raced in 1968 that is now consider a Vintage race car with provenance and run againts a 1968 car that was built in 2008, that's their decision and I respect that.
I built my Firebird in 2008, it is a 42 year old car, it is also a race car, it is period correct down to the 1967 Muncie tranny and 1968 brakes, HSR and NASA legal, with modern safety gear. Even though it does not have an old racing provenance it is a Vintage-Race car.

Varkwso is correct in that the rules will allow modifications so car counts can increase. But we choose not to have some funky name like "Modified old car that looks somewhat like an old Vintage race car"

"Open Vintage Class" is the name we chose, 1975 and older cars welcome.



The reason for posting on this forum was to spread the word, if someone has or wants to build a 1975 or older car to run, Corvette or otherwise, NASA-SE now has a class for them. They can run it period correct or modified to their taste, as long as it meets safety requirements.
Hope to see some of you at the track.

redvetracr

"HSR legal"?? have you been to an HSR event yet?