Problem with Pfadt ball joints....
02-04-2010, 07:05 AM
#1
Race Director
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Problem with Pfadt ball joints....
Received 4 lower ball joints and proceded to install the first one and found the dust shield too large to seal. Called Pfadt and they were aware of the problem but don't have a fix planned yet. I asked if any of their customers had suggested ways to make it work but J simply said some of them flip it upside down. However, this still does not make a good seal and will allow grease to escape and grit to get inside.
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
02-04-2010, 09:19 AM
#2
Safety Car
Received 4 lower ball joints and proceded to install the first one and found the dust shield too large to seal. Called Pfadt and they were aware of the problem but don't have a fix planned yet. I asked if any of their customers had suggested ways to make it work but J simply said some of them flip it upside down. However, this still does not make a good seal and will allow grease to escape and grit to get inside.
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
02-04-2010, 09:27 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
VBP makes ball joint and tie rod covers.....I eventually melted mine though while using the stock brakes on the car that the front rotors would end up glowing....Haven't seen any damge to them since I "cooled" the brakes by using Stoptechs...
I think that I would give it a try, you are behind a rock and a hard place...
I think that I would give it a try, you are behind a rock and a hard place...
02-04-2010, 10:01 AM
#4
I am probably the customer that they are talking about. You right that the the dust boots do not fit the ball joint. Pfat did offer to take them back and refund my money even after I had installed them. I choose to keep them because I feel that I ball joint itself is a good product.
What I did was turn the dust boot inside out. this allowed the boot to cover the ball joint better. I took some heat resistant tape and cut it into some thin strips, about 3/16" wide. I wrapped the lower part of the ball joint housing with it to build up the diameter of the housing. After pulling the dust boot over the tape I took a zip tie and used it to keep the dust boot in place. You need the tape to give you a soft area so the zip tie has something to pull into so it does not slip. When applying grease just go easy on it.
Before I came up with this solution I did ask about the boots and the answer that I got was that most race cars do not use the boot. That the joint is cleaned with fresh grease on a normal routine. They just pump mew grease in until the old grease is out. Then clean it up and you are ready to go. The dust shield as provided is to keep the big stuff out or so I am told.
My repair seems to be working fine.
What I did was turn the dust boot inside out. this allowed the boot to cover the ball joint better. I took some heat resistant tape and cut it into some thin strips, about 3/16" wide. I wrapped the lower part of the ball joint housing with it to build up the diameter of the housing. After pulling the dust boot over the tape I took a zip tie and used it to keep the dust boot in place. You need the tape to give you a soft area so the zip tie has something to pull into so it does not slip. When applying grease just go easy on it.
Before I came up with this solution I did ask about the boots and the answer that I got was that most race cars do not use the boot. That the joint is cleaned with fresh grease on a normal routine. They just pump mew grease in until the old grease is out. Then clean it up and you are ready to go. The dust shield as provided is to keep the big stuff out or so I am told.
My repair seems to be working fine.
02-04-2010, 03:07 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
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02-04-2010, 09:05 PM
#7
Race Director
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I fixed the problem (I hope) by using my old super-duper safety wire and silicone. Maybe...maybe not.
02-04-2010, 09:20 PM
#8
Safety Car
Arte, the way you drive you would have melted those boots in short order anyway....sounds like some major modifications underway, we better look out for you and Beerkat too this year!!!
Tim
Tim
02-05-2010, 03:06 AM
#11
Race Director
Yeah, I had bought a set of these ball joints too and ended up sending them back because of the poor boot fit.
Moog sells a very nice lower ball joint for around $100 on Rockauto.com
That's the way I ended up going. Spicer makes the upper if you care.
If you bought the Pfadt Poly Bushings, you're going to have some issues to deal with. The newly designed Poly Bushings are one piece and due to the factory tolerances the bushings sometimes protrude (to long) and make it a bear to install.
The VBP bushings are much nicer to install. I had Robert from Speedsouth soda blast and clear coat the control arms to keep all of the crap from adhering to the control arms.
Did the zert fitting on the control arms too. Hopefully, everything works well this season. All of the stuff was installed on my buddy Zenak's car.
Pictures here
http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...ir%20Pictures/
Moog sells a very nice lower ball joint for around $100 on Rockauto.com
That's the way I ended up going. Spicer makes the upper if you care.
If you bought the Pfadt Poly Bushings, you're going to have some issues to deal with. The newly designed Poly Bushings are one piece and due to the factory tolerances the bushings sometimes protrude (to long) and make it a bear to install.
The VBP bushings are much nicer to install. I had Robert from Speedsouth soda blast and clear coat the control arms to keep all of the crap from adhering to the control arms.
Did the zert fitting on the control arms too. Hopefully, everything works well this season. All of the stuff was installed on my buddy Zenak's car.
Pictures here
http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...ir%20Pictures/
02-05-2010, 09:48 AM
#12
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I used the VBP poly's and had no trouble, either. I appreciate the tip about spicer top joints. I do need them, also. My only holdup now is still waiting for the AFR heads. Its been a month and car is still on rack. Thank goodness it is a slow part of the season. Which begs the question; how long does one have to wait on AFR heads in the middle of racing season??
02-05-2010, 10:10 AM
#13
Race Director
I'm not sure what the back log is on AFR heads, I guess it depends on who you ordered from.
The Spicer joints are now part of Raybestos if you're shopping for them.
The Spicer joints are now part of Raybestos if you're shopping for them.
I used the VBP poly's and had no trouble, either. I appreciate the tip about spicer top joints. I do need them, also. My only holdup now is still waiting for the AFR heads. Its been a month and car is still on rack. Thank goodness it is a slow part of the season. Which begs the question; how long does one have to wait on AFR heads in the middle of racing season??
02-05-2010, 01:17 PM
#14
Safety Car
I think you got this backwards. The old Pfadt Poly Bushing kit was one piece bushings -- this is what I have on my car. The new kit is split bushings like VBP does.
02-05-2010, 01:25 PM
#15
Race Director
For the front uppers I had use a 6" gear puller to squeeze in the poly so that I could slip over the snap rings into the grove.
I talked to Aaron about the problem several times and basically, you need split and grind down the bushing for them to fit properly in some control arms due to factory tolerances that these control arms have.
The VBP's are much easier to install and since I was using zerts for greesing the bushings they would have been a better choice.
11-27-2011, 06:42 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
gary@grbowler.com
11-27-2011, 03:25 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Received 4 lower ball joints and proceded to install the first one and found the dust shield too large to seal. Called Pfadt and they were aware of the problem but don't have a fix planned yet. I asked if any of their customers had suggested ways to make it work but J simply said some of them flip it upside down. However, this still does not make a good seal and will allow grease to escape and grit to get inside.
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
Question: Anyone with these ball joints found an acceptable way to make it work??
Gary, these are designed to be serviceable and adjustable and are a race duty part as a result. So they do not need dust boots, like a 100,000 mile OEM no service ball joint. When installed on your corvette, it will be a good idea to grease them every oil change and make sure they are cleaned up. If you do that, there is no need for any dust boots. All of the dust boots for the lower ball joint do not hold up to the heat produced by the brakes.
Hope that helps and let me know if you have any more questions. Thanks!
11-29-2011, 06:14 PM
#18
Hey guys. The problem as stated earlier with packaging boots for these ball joints is typically folks are upgrading to our ball joints because their previous have failed because of heat from the brakes. We do have a part number for an Energy Suspension boot that will fit these ball joints, but there is an excellent chance that after a few hard track days the boots will melt anyway.
As with most dedicated race pieces if you're going to use them on the street they will require more maintenance than an equivalent street piece. Making sure they are properly greased will keep these ball joints functioning great even with street use.
As with most dedicated race pieces if you're going to use them on the street they will require more maintenance than an equivalent street piece. Making sure they are properly greased will keep these ball joints functioning great even with street use.
11-29-2011, 07:44 PM
#19
Safety Car
I tore a boot on one of my OEM balljoints when doing my poly bushing install. Ended up getting the Energy Suspension boots from Summit Racing. They're listed for a C4, but they fit C5s and C6s fine. They don't seal like the OEM one, but once installed the boot seals nicely. I wrapped the boot in DEI cool tape like I do with all my balljoints and have had no issues.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ENS-9-13127G/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ENS-9-13127G/
