Not typical I hope!
02-08-2010, 01:33 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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02-08-2010, 03:10 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
One in a million. Being an instructor myself, that was completely uncalled for!!
He didn't even bother to show the driver the proper line. I would NEVER harass a student for taking a bad line, unless he continued to do so after I had pointed out the correct line several times...and that was only if the student was completely igonoring me or was absolutely unsafe (I didn't see that here). I've been in cars with novices, where they are completely overwhelmed. I don't EVER get angry or upset. I know they are doing their best and it is my job to talk them through the course in a safe, fun, and constructive manner.
I also wouldn't expect a novice to be smooth out of the gate (that is why I am in the passenger seat, to show you how). I thought the driver was doing a reasonable job and should have been encouraged for several things he did correctly.
If you ever feel you are just not able to get along with your instructor, do not let it ruin your day, ask to be assigned to another instructor. You are a PAYING customer and have this right. This way, IF you as the student are THE problem, now the club has 2 instructors to back the story. Which will make the event safer for you and others that attend.
He didn't even bother to show the driver the proper line. I would NEVER harass a student for taking a bad line, unless he continued to do so after I had pointed out the correct line several times...and that was only if the student was completely igonoring me or was absolutely unsafe (I didn't see that here). I've been in cars with novices, where they are completely overwhelmed. I don't EVER get angry or upset. I know they are doing their best and it is my job to talk them through the course in a safe, fun, and constructive manner.
I also wouldn't expect a novice to be smooth out of the gate (that is why I am in the passenger seat, to show you how). I thought the driver was doing a reasonable job and should have been encouraged for several things he did correctly.
If you ever feel you are just not able to get along with your instructor, do not let it ruin your day, ask to be assigned to another instructor. You are a PAYING customer and have this right. This way, IF you as the student are THE problem, now the club has 2 instructors to back the story. Which will make the event safer for you and others that attend.
02-08-2010, 03:14 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Was that an instructor or a mother-in-law? Not one piece of constructive advice was given. I hope the guy got someone who knew how to instruct the next time around.
02-08-2010, 04:06 PM
#7
Instructor
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Unbelievable. First red flag should have been when he informed you he had never worn a full face mask helmet. What experience does he have? All of the instructors I have had were very helpful and provided very constructive recommendations. Thanks for sharing this. I thought your first lap on the track was better than most I have seen
02-08-2010, 05:13 PM
#10
Team Owner
One in a million. Being an instructor myself, that was completely uncalled for!!
He didn't even bother to show the driver the proper line. I would NEVER harass a student for taking a bad line, unless he continued to do so after I had pointed out the correct line several times...and that was only if the student was completely igonoring me or was absolutely unsafe (I didn't see that here). I've been in cars with novices, where they are completely overwhelmed. I don't EVER get angry or upset. I know they are doing their best and it is my job to talk them through the course in a safe, fun, and constructive manner.
I also wouldn't expect a novice to be smooth out of the gate (that is why I am in the passenger seat, to show you how). I thought the driver was doing a reasonable job and should have been encouraged for several things he did correctly.
If you ever feel you are just not able to get along with your instructor, do not let it ruin your day, ask to be assigned to another instructor. You are a PAYING customer and have this right. This way, IF you as the student are THE problem, now the club has 2 instructors to back the story. Which will make the event safer for you and others that attend.
He didn't even bother to show the driver the proper line. I would NEVER harass a student for taking a bad line, unless he continued to do so after I had pointed out the correct line several times...and that was only if the student was completely igonoring me or was absolutely unsafe (I didn't see that here). I've been in cars with novices, where they are completely overwhelmed. I don't EVER get angry or upset. I know they are doing their best and it is my job to talk them through the course in a safe, fun, and constructive manner.
I also wouldn't expect a novice to be smooth out of the gate (that is why I am in the passenger seat, to show you how). I thought the driver was doing a reasonable job and should have been encouraged for several things he did correctly.
If you ever feel you are just not able to get along with your instructor, do not let it ruin your day, ask to be assigned to another instructor. You are a PAYING customer and have this right. This way, IF you as the student are THE problem, now the club has 2 instructors to back the story. Which will make the event safer for you and others that attend.
02-08-2010, 06:30 PM
#12
Drifting
What a joke to call this guy an instructor, the only title he gets is "Moron" in my book. Heck, I wouldn't have even slowed down when I dropped him off. 
I'd be having a talk with the event organizer.
I'd be having a talk with the event organizer.
02-08-2010, 06:55 PM
#14
He though the driver "drag raced" the track entry and it pissed him off. The driver followed it up with not staying out on the first corner and it was downhill from there. Completely out of line on the instructors part, he should have been at least willing to switch and show the proper line.
Totally unlike any instructor I've ever had.
Totally unlike any instructor I've ever had.
02-09-2010, 12:55 AM
#17
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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Some comments about the video. I agree the instructor didn't handle things very well. However, he did ask if it was the guy's first track day and the guy answered by saying it isn't my first. The comment about the closed face helmet could easily been said by somebody who had worn open face helmets before. However, it may have also indicated the student wasn't telling the truth about his first track day.
The instructor's first problem was he didn't define what he expected as the guy started out on the track. Since track entry can potentially be lethal (like the collision between the Viper and Porsche in CA a couple of years ago) I always make sure any student's I am riding with know what I want them to do when entering the track. It is hard to tell from the video how hard the shifts were but you can hear the car accelerating hard and shifts taking place with the first shift sounding and looking sort of jerky. Maybe if we were sitting in that car we might have been concerned about the lack of smoothness.
Once on the track you can hear the instructor saying to the guy, "they didn't teach you the line when you were driving here?". That sort of indicates the instructor had been told the student had some experience at this track.
Although it is hard to tell from the video how the car felt to the instructor it seems like he blew the guy off pretty quick. In less than a lap he wanted out of the car. Maybe there was more going on than the video shows?
Based on the video the instructor should have been upfront with what he expected and probably shouldn't have been focused on talking so much about the last mistake instead of coaching the driver for what was coming up next (that in itself can get both of you killed). That would have avoided the comments about you shouldn't have apexed there or you did that wrong, etc. The instructor was behind the student instead of ahead of him. Yes, he was a little negative and the negativity didn't seem to be justified but we were not riding in that car.
The conversation almost sounds like some of the role playing I went through when I was in my Instructor Training School with the BMW club.
Bill
The instructor's first problem was he didn't define what he expected as the guy started out on the track. Since track entry can potentially be lethal (like the collision between the Viper and Porsche in CA a couple of years ago) I always make sure any student's I am riding with know what I want them to do when entering the track. It is hard to tell from the video how hard the shifts were but you can hear the car accelerating hard and shifts taking place with the first shift sounding and looking sort of jerky. Maybe if we were sitting in that car we might have been concerned about the lack of smoothness.
Once on the track you can hear the instructor saying to the guy, "they didn't teach you the line when you were driving here?". That sort of indicates the instructor had been told the student had some experience at this track.
Although it is hard to tell from the video how the car felt to the instructor it seems like he blew the guy off pretty quick. In less than a lap he wanted out of the car. Maybe there was more going on than the video shows?
Based on the video the instructor should have been upfront with what he expected and probably shouldn't have been focused on talking so much about the last mistake instead of coaching the driver for what was coming up next (that in itself can get both of you killed). That would have avoided the comments about you shouldn't have apexed there or you did that wrong, etc. The instructor was behind the student instead of ahead of him. Yes, he was a little negative and the negativity didn't seem to be justified but we were not riding in that car.
The conversation almost sounds like some of the role playing I went through when I was in my Instructor Training School with the BMW club.
Bill
02-09-2010, 05:10 AM
#18
Drifting
02-09-2010, 09:02 AM
#19
Drifting
I agree with Bill ... seems something had to happen prior to set the tone for that lap. That guy just did not want in that car from the beginning. Little hot entering the track, but overall not too much wrong with that lap.
