autocross track designs - need help!
04-11-2010, 05:07 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
autocross track designs - need help!
My local Xcross club has its first meet of the year next weekend. I have been selected to set up the course. I have never designed one before and unfortunetly the parking lot is long but narrow with 4 lamp posts.
Where can I get ideas for a design layout for my event. I have participated maybe 12 times over two years and the course is different each time and in a different parking lot.
Where can I get ideas for a design layout for my event. I have participated maybe 12 times over two years and the course is different each time and in a different parking lot.
04-11-2010, 08:22 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the info
That was a great link and had very good info. I will have to read through it several times and then go look at my parking lot to get an idea.
04-11-2010, 11:57 PM
#5
Safety Car
Great link.
My 2-cents: I prefer lined miniture road courses (MRCs) vs. gated courses. Driving lined MRCs require less dependance on course memorization. I've even taken it to the extent of "copying" the basic features of existing permanent road courses. Yes I know you can't copy elevation changes such as Laguna Seca's corkscrew or have long Mulsanne Straights but you can copy the "flat" course design. Gated courses put too much of a premium on driver experience and penalize the rookie driver. If you're trying to expand your autocross program you need the rookies to come back for their 2nd and subsequent events. If the rookie gets lost and does not have fun, he/she won't come back. On MRCs the experienced driver can learn the lines instead of learning the course much like driving your typical 10-11 turn permanent road course. If you try and copy "The 'Ring" however, all bets are off.
My 2-cents: I prefer lined miniture road courses (MRCs) vs. gated courses. Driving lined MRCs require less dependance on course memorization. I've even taken it to the extent of "copying" the basic features of existing permanent road courses. Yes I know you can't copy elevation changes such as Laguna Seca's corkscrew or have long Mulsanne Straights but you can copy the "flat" course design. Gated courses put too much of a premium on driver experience and penalize the rookie driver. If you're trying to expand your autocross program you need the rookies to come back for their 2nd and subsequent events. If the rookie gets lost and does not have fun, he/she won't come back. On MRCs the experienced driver can learn the lines instead of learning the course much like driving your typical 10-11 turn permanent road course. If you try and copy "The 'Ring" however, all bets are off.
04-12-2010, 11:19 AM
#7
Great link.
My 2-cents: I prefer lined miniture road courses (MRCs) vs. gated courses. Driving lined MRCs require less dependance on course memorization. I've even taken it to the extent of "copying" the basic features of existing permanent road courses. Yes I know you can't copy elevation changes such as Laguna Seca's corkscrew or have long Mulsanne Straights but you can copy the "flat" course design. Gated courses put too much of a premium on driver experience and penalize the rookie driver. If you're trying to expand your autocross program you need the rookies to come back for their 2nd and subsequent events. If the rookie gets lost and does not have fun, he/she won't come back. On MRCs the experienced driver can learn the lines instead of learning the course much like driving your typical 10-11 turn permanent road course. If you try and copy "The 'Ring" however, all bets are off.
My 2-cents: I prefer lined miniture road courses (MRCs) vs. gated courses. Driving lined MRCs require less dependance on course memorization. I've even taken it to the extent of "copying" the basic features of existing permanent road courses. Yes I know you can't copy elevation changes such as Laguna Seca's corkscrew or have long Mulsanne Straights but you can copy the "flat" course design. Gated courses put too much of a premium on driver experience and penalize the rookie driver. If you're trying to expand your autocross program you need the rookies to come back for their 2nd and subsequent events. If the rookie gets lost and does not have fun, he/she won't come back. On MRCs the experienced driver can learn the lines instead of learning the course much like driving your typical 10-11 turn permanent road course. If you try and copy "The 'Ring" however, all bets are off.
Why shouldn't experienced drivers do better? If a rookie doesn't like having to memorize a course or doesn't like getting whipped by a skilled, expereinced vet, then autocross isn't for him/her
Less is more with autocross course design.
04-12-2010, 03:57 PM
#8
Drifting
I’ve learned a lot about course design by looking at what others have done.
You can google AUTOCROSS COURSE MAPS to find quite a few
Two good ones
http://www.wdcr-scca.org/SoloAutocro...1/Default.aspx
http://www.houscca.com/solo/courses.php
I’m not saying to copy their maps exactly, but it’s like writing songs, no harm in taking a little piece (here and there) and combining them into your course.
You can google AUTOCROSS COURSE MAPS to find quite a few
Two good ones
http://www.wdcr-scca.org/SoloAutocro...1/Default.aspx
http://www.houscca.com/solo/courses.php
I’m not saying to copy their maps exactly, but it’s like writing songs, no harm in taking a little piece (here and there) and combining them into your course.
04-12-2010, 10:08 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2003
Location: New Carlisle IN
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Whenever my dad or I set up a course, we have a general idea on where we want to start and finish the cars. From there we basicly go from the start line and start putting cones out there. We make some offset gates, ususally a good chicane, and then try to follow the lay of the land to make the rest of the course. We then walk the cours and kick cones to make the course flow, or to tighten it up if we feel there is a safety issue to go around or keep away from (like your light poles).
At the Tire Rack, we are kind of limeted to just directing the cars how we want them to go around the test track. At Grissom AFB, we have alot of room to play with and nothing to hit!
At the Tire Rack, we are kind of limeted to just directing the cars how we want them to go around the test track. At Grissom AFB, we have alot of room to play with and nothing to hit!
04-12-2010, 10:12 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
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Totally disagree. Walking a course, figuring out the line when there are many options, and committing your plan to memory is fundamental to autocross.
Why shouldn't experienced drivers do better? If a rookie doesn't like having to memorize a course or doesn't like getting whipped by a skilled, expereinced vet, then autocross isn't for him/her
Less is more with autocross course design.
Why shouldn't experienced drivers do better? If a rookie doesn't like having to memorize a course or doesn't like getting whipped by a skilled, expereinced vet, then autocross isn't for him/her
Less is more with autocross course design.
Less is more is true. It is alot harder to see a course when it is lined in cones than if it just has a few gates to go through. A "sea of cones" is more confusing to a newbie. That is one reason i don't like runnign with most scca clubs. They go out therer and throw 300 cones on a 30 second course. It is not needed.
04-13-2010, 10:12 AM
#11
Race Director
I haven't autocrossed in years, BUT I feel a combination of gates and MRC sections is good. Early on, I attended a few events where the gates were completely disconnected, and it was virtually impossible for a beginner to finish the course. I agree that learning the course is essential, but it needs to be a balance IMO. It should be FUN for everyone
04-13-2010, 10:46 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Retention of newbies is very important to me. One problem with MRC is the lines get blurred/swept/eradicated during the day.
I also agree that less is more. What I emphasize is getting an experienced driver with the newbie to help them. I've actually experienced very few newbies that don't come back IF they get help. OTOH, the SCCA and NCCC organization locally don't do much to help the newbs. The BMW and PCA clubs go out of their way to find and help the new folks out.
Have a good one,
Mike
I also agree that less is more. What I emphasize is getting an experienced driver with the newbie to help them. I've actually experienced very few newbies that don't come back IF they get help. OTOH, the SCCA and NCCC organization locally don't do much to help the newbs. The BMW and PCA clubs go out of their way to find and help the new folks out.
Have a good one,
Mike
