bright1984

Took the car to the track yesterday; it's amazing what this thing is capable of! Had the lead instructor behind the wheel for a session and breaks lost it completely (no feel in the pedal all the way to the floor) as soon as we got back into the pit. To be fair, he was pushing it pretty hard for 20 minutes straight and the track necessitates quite a bit of braking. After letting it sit for 30 minutes the brakes cooled down and I was able to squeeze in another session.

I was recommended to go with Hawk pads (DTC-70), which are supposedly a lot better than stock and would prevent the above from happening in the future. Would you guys agree or recommend anything else?

Also, sorry for the stupid question, but is there a good way to gauge remaining life on the pads without taking the wheels off?

yakisoba

If you can snake a light past your wheels, you can look at the pad thickness relative to the backing plate. For street driving, I used to run the pads down to the metal. For track, I replace pads when the thickest part is thinner than the backing plate. The reason is heat. Less pad than that and you have to bleed the brakes more and risk having fade.

I use Carbotech pads on track and on the street car. My wife favors EBC yellow for both. It's a religious discussion for most folks, so no offense to any other brake brand. I like Carbotech because while they dust, it doesn't stick to the wheels (weld to the wheels) so it can be cleaned up. The XP10 is a little much for street use, but the bobcat pads are fine.

Preventing fade was a combination of things for me. First was learning to brake less but harder. As I got faster, my braking was more disciplined. Second was good fluid. Motul or something comparable. Third was stainless steel pistons for the calipers and stainless steel brake lines. Lastly, I installed brake ducts (adapted from C6Z ducts) and some aircraft hose to blow air from the front scoops into the center of the rotor. All that seems to have cured the fade issues, at least for the 30 minute sessions I generally run.

Lastly, I'd tell you that as you run more, you get more sensitive to the pedal and where the brakes will likely give up on you. Check them to see if you have pedal left. If you're in a DE, you're not winning anything. Check them in a place where you won't alarm the folks behind you and where you can run off safely if they are in failure.

Cap'n Pete

Anything from Hawk Blues, to HT10's/HT14's, or DTC70's are good.

Also the Carbotech line of pads - XP10's, XP12's - are supposed to be really good, as mentioned.

There is also a newer line of brakes that have been highly recommended lately - "CL Brakes".

If you do a simple search for "brakes" or "brake pads" in this section, you should come up with lots of good reading material .

On another note, sounds like your "instructor" was having way too much fun behind the wheel of your car? I've never driven a student's car more than ~3 - 5 laps, and never pushed to the point of boiling their brakes! Generally, the purpose of driving a student's car is to show them the line and a few basic techniques ... not to show them how fast you can go in their car . And if you're advanced enough (as a student) that you want to SEE or FEEL what an instructor's idea of "fast" really is, a few quick laps should still do the trick ... not a whole ~20+ minute session!? But I get the impression that this was your first time out with your car (based on your post) in which case, I think the instructor probably over-drove the car for what you needed to be shown to learn the track/technique. Just my unrelated $.02.

bobmoore2

All the above are good choices, which are partly dependent on your driving style.

My personal choice is Performance Friction 01s. Their initial bite isn't quite so strong, which makes it a little easier to modulate the brakes. They seem to stand up to the heat of racing pretty well. They don't wear out the rotors as fast as other pads either.

Personal choice, but all of the above are much better than the stock pads.

bright1984

You do have a good point. He did mention several times that he wasn't going "all-out" but from my inexperienced view he seemed to push it pretty hard. That's why I was pretty taken back when the brakes faded completely! I've tracked my bike numerous times at the same track, but this was my first time with this car.

68sixspeed

add cooling ducts like the quantum motorsports etc too. DTC70's are a bit much for street tires, great with sticky tires. (more brake than tire grip), Plus any aggressive pad like a hawk blue, dtc 60/70 will ruin your rims (little bits of metal etc coming off and imbedding in the rims), so if it's a dual-duty setup I like the HP+ hawk, cooling ducts, and good brake fluid (castrol SRF, motul, ATE Blue, etc.)

Welcome to the addiction.

jaa1992

I personally like the carbotech line of pads, on the 92 I just went to the 12/10 combo.
I've tried a set of the ebc yellow - I was not happy with them. Good they lasted forever, think they still have 1/2 pad left. Bad they just didn't slow the car like the carbotech.
I used hawk blues on a mustang and they did great, downside was rotor wear.

I'm avoinding the Hawk DTC pads, the c5Z mafia tends to crack at least one rotor per weekend. I've not had the pleasure of cracking a rotor with the carbotechs

68sixspeed

sometimes the first few track days can be the hardest as we tend to over-brake... From a few years back--



I also later learned to take the center caps off before they get hot and fly off!

-Dan

Cap'n Pete

^ ^ Slotted and cross-drilled?!?!? Rookie!!!

2000BSME

I wouldn't go straight to DTC70's from stock, I would start with Blues, or HT10's first. I personally am incapable of threshold braking with the DTC's. ABS takes over for me. Get a feel for some intermediate pads first.

2000BSME

no ****.

68sixspeed

Yep, they cracked the third or fourth day out! Both sides too, made some cool wall art! Like I say, that was a few years back and on one of my first times at the track! We get smarter with age! Performance AFX fronts and DBA4000's rear on the z06, even when I take the c5 out it's on GM stock plain ones!

2000bsme- you're going to throw stones, any you forgot to bring a car with a roof?

bright1984

68sixspeed, you bring up a good point. This is not my only driver, but I generally drive it on the street 95% of the time. I checked out Tire Rack's performance ratings and it seems that all higher spec Hawk pads, including HP+, have pretty poor noise and dust characteristics. And most of Carbotech pads indicate that they're not recommended for street due to noise and dust levels.

For both street and track driving, would Hawk HP+ be my best compromise? Looks like Hawk HPS have a bit of a better balance, but I'm presuming that they wouldn't hold up on the track all that well... any personal experience with those?

Jason

HP+ would be my recommendation as a first upgrade.

68sixspeed

I started with the HPS (ran probably 6 or so track days on them with the c5), still run them as street pads on my c5 and 68 camaro (it has c5 brakes), nice pad, quiet, but doesn't have the initial bite of the hp+ or the higher operating temp (that's not saying the HP+ is a DTC60/70 or Carbotech equiv either, but I've had good luck with them). HP+ on the street can be a bit squeeky at low speeds, I left them on my z06 for now as I'm running track days a few weeks apart, but at the end of July I'll pull them before taking some longer trips. As mentioned before, on street tires it seems to be a good balance, if you stuff the brakes the ABS will come on, but they aren't hitting it all the time like some of the more aggressive pads. For the money I think you'll like them. -Dan (but they are pretty dusty!)

2000BSME

roof? I'm not driving my house around the track, I'm driving a formula one or an open cockpit lemans prototype around the track.

How's that roof working out for you?

bright1984

Thanks Dan and everyone else here; you've been extremely helpful. I'll go ahead with HP+ as it seems to provide for a dual nature of street/track use a bit better than others and the price isn't bad either!

0RAAMaudio

I am on my third set of XP10/8 Carbotechs, two sets for a different car, two different brake packages, street, solo, HPDE and some TT events.

I have a set on our C6 with Z calipers and love them, rarely any noise, dusty but easy to clean, work at all temps, all weather, etc......

BRAKE ducts, absolutely required for all Vettes on the track, SS pistons are a great idea(I have DRM for the Z calipers), good rotors, it costs a bit up front but far less than running off the track or replacing lessor parts all the time.

Rick

Cap'n Pete

They'll work well for you. Obviously they're not a pure "race/track" pad, but they'll be a big improvement over a true "street" pad .

I think I've heard/read that the Carbotech "dust" cleans up a little easier than Hawk dust? (but that could be anecdotal / case-by-case?).

I would never consider running Hawk HPS on the track ... I had them on the front of my Camaro, with a different brand (street) ceramic pad in the rear. The fronts had less grip than the rear did! Caused big problems :o. I was (and still am) better off running the same ceramics on all 4 corners if I take my car on the track with the street pads like that (which I don't often do, but just occasionally if turning a few quick laps for fun). Overall, I'm NOT impressed by HPS at all. BUT, that's nothing against Hawk, as I've been more than happy with their Blues, HT14's and DTC70's (I think the HT14's were my favourite).

gmccreary

I'm running Cobalt Friction CSRs for street/track use. Much better performance than stock pads, trigger ABS much quicker running stock GY SC EMTs, more dust and squeal somewhat when coming to a stop from about 5 mph to 0. Having said all that I really like them.