so you've been tracking your C6Z for a while now...
06-04-2010, 05:13 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
so you've been tracking your C6Z for a while now...
considering a new track car sometime in the fall. as much as I want to try something different from a Corvette, with the C6Z prices where they are, it's hard to discard that option, if you know what I mean.
if you have been tracking your C6Z for a while now (a season or more of DEs or maybe TT) with a stock or close to stock drivetrain/power levels - please share your experience.
not going to ask if it's fast, I think we all know the answer to that
wondering what the reliability has been like, especially the small things that we all love to throw money on
were there any mods/upgrades you felt like you had to make to keep the car safe/reliable?
how has the stock suspension been treating you?
track tire selections for the stock wheel sizes? did you have to get different wheels to get better choices?
here's what I have gathered so far from talking to people at the track or reading stuff here, would also appreciate personal experience around these points:
1. bunch of people are paranoid about oiling issues with data supporting the need for upgrades. some folks had GM buy them a new motor while others ran theirs hard for years with no issues.
2. stock brakes are ok at first, but much like on C5s, do not deal with extreme track temperatures well, expensive pads
3. not a lot of R comp choices aside from MSPC and Hoosiers (although I love the cups on our Porsches)
4. unlike C5, fluid temps are within reason on the track
5. alum frame is a PITA to attach roll bar/cage to
7. aero upgrades seem to be popular, not sure if it's a bling thing outside of w2w crowd or it is actually important for these cars. it sounds like a lot of $$.
TIA
if you have been tracking your C6Z for a while now (a season or more of DEs or maybe TT) with a stock or close to stock drivetrain/power levels - please share your experience.
not going to ask if it's fast, I think we all know the answer to that
wondering what the reliability has been like, especially the small things that we all love to throw money on
were there any mods/upgrades you felt like you had to make to keep the car safe/reliable?
how has the stock suspension been treating you?
track tire selections for the stock wheel sizes? did you have to get different wheels to get better choices?
here's what I have gathered so far from talking to people at the track or reading stuff here, would also appreciate personal experience around these points:
1. bunch of people are paranoid about oiling issues with data supporting the need for upgrades. some folks had GM buy them a new motor while others ran theirs hard for years with no issues.
2. stock brakes are ok at first, but much like on C5s, do not deal with extreme track temperatures well, expensive pads
3. not a lot of R comp choices aside from MSPC and Hoosiers (although I love the cups on our Porsches)
4. unlike C5, fluid temps are within reason on the track
5. alum frame is a PITA to attach roll bar/cage to
7. aero upgrades seem to be popular, not sure if it's a bling thing outside of w2w crowd or it is actually important for these cars. it sounds like a lot of $$.
TIA
06-04-2010, 08:29 AM
#2
Race Director
I'm trying some low-buck aero mods myself over the next few weeks. There are certainly improvements to be made, but not necessarily worth $4000 worth of Carbon.
Our engine has been fine. I've left it completely stock, just in case ( GMPP), but who knows. I personally they have just had your normal, random failures due to bad oil pumps, but the internet has made it easy to correlate.
Lots of choices for cheap wheels/tires. I run C5Z 18x10.5's all around with $75 used tires. I've passed plenty of cars with more motor and more meat!
Brakes........that's a tough one. I felt the OEM brakes were fine, but the entire pad situation is a mess. I have a PFC kit they gave us for evaluating, but for the money I'd probably buy a Stoptech front kit. They are relatively inexpensive, use more common pads, and they've worked well on my race cars.
Our engine has been fine. I've left it completely stock, just in case ( GMPP), but who knows. I personally they have just had your normal, random failures due to bad oil pumps, but the internet has made it easy to correlate.
Lots of choices for cheap wheels/tires. I run C5Z 18x10.5's all around with $75 used tires. I've passed plenty of cars with more motor and more meat!
Brakes........that's a tough one. I felt the OEM brakes were fine, but the entire pad situation is a mess. I have a PFC kit they gave us for evaluating, but for the money I'd probably buy a Stoptech front kit. They are relatively inexpensive, use more common pads, and they've worked well on my race cars.
06-04-2010, 09:28 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
I sold a very modified C5Z to buy a stock C6Z. I bought my 06Z about a year after they came out (early 2007 when they were still commanding $5-10k over). I lucked out and got mine under MSRP, but it did have about 3k miles on it. I have had it for more than 3 years and was already advanced HPDE driver when I bought it.
First thing I notice was that even though my C5Z had 430rwhp, the acceleration of the C6z in bone stock form was awe inspiring. It was much faster than my cam'd C5Z. The ride is stiffer than a C5Z as well, but plush at the same time. The car in stock form handled FAR better and my C5Z which had poly's, bilsteins, sways, and Pheonix prep.
I agree the time is RIPE to pick up a used mint C6Z. They can be had in the mid $40k (maybe low 40's with mileage). To me, this car is a STEAL at $45k and worth every penny.
1) Oiling issue...we'll some have never had a problem and other have...just like all Corvette's. There was a VERY good write up on the C6Z forum about the Lingenfelter tank. A gentleman with very good instrumentation could replicate oil starvation on the stock motor, but when installed the Lingenfelter tank, he could not...period! I have NEVER heard of anyone with a Lingenfelter tank blow their motor due to oil starvation, so throw in $600 into your budget for the tank and be safe than sorry.
2) OEM brakes...like Dave said, the work fine (better than fine actually). The are MUCH better than C5 brakes...BUT the problem is servicability and cost. Eventually you will strip all the soft aluminum allen bolts and have to remove the caliper each time you change paddlets (oh yes paddlets...all 12 of them!!!) Also, you will eat through a set of expensive race pads in 2-3 days. And pads for the C6Z are the MOST expensive Corvette pads (double C5). So they will last 1/2 as long and cost twice as much...and no real cheap aftermarket rotor solution either...(but they have come down to $85 each). The only good thing about rotos is there is no left or right, so you can but one front and one rear and use them for either side when neccessary. Buying an aftermarket BBK for the front WILL save you money in only 2 years of HPDE and many broken knuckles changing pads.
3) Hoosier is your only choice for 19" rims and THEY ARE $$$$$. No scrubs available like for C5 on the forum, so unless you get new 18" rims, this is the single biggest expense of this car. Also, some have had problem with the computer and smaller diameter wheels.
4) Fluid temps are fine, no reason for aftermarket coolers unless you are running big cam or turbo or something. I see the same temps 260 oil, that I did in my C5 with a custom Dewitt's. I do recommend changing to a 160F thermostat, it does help.
5) I personally can't see buying such a beautiful high tech car like a C6Z to put a cage in it....personally if you are building a true race car, your better off with a C5 already caged and then mod to your desire. The C6Z is too nice to be gutted (unless you have stupid money).
6) Aero is a lot of money on any car, not sure you get that much benefit at the speeds we go. Even with all this power, most tracks you will top out in the mid 150's at most (and that is for less than a couple seconds). I think the money is better spent on suspension and brakes.
7) Suspension...to me the stock bushings are WAY too soft and so are the stock springs for TRUE track duty with Hoosiers. I bought coil overs with heavy springs and it made all the difference in the world.
Reliability so far has been good (I did manage to break 3rd gear, but warranty covered it). Also, with 2LZ car or higher, you have the seat airbag issue if you want to use race seats.
Bottom line for $45k this car is the supercar bargin of the century. With some intake/exhaust and suspension updates you are looking at basically the fastest car on the track. Unless someone brings a more heavily modified C6Z, nothing will touch it.
First thing I notice was that even though my C5Z had 430rwhp, the acceleration of the C6z in bone stock form was awe inspiring. It was much faster than my cam'd C5Z. The ride is stiffer than a C5Z as well, but plush at the same time. The car in stock form handled FAR better and my C5Z which had poly's, bilsteins, sways, and Pheonix prep.
I agree the time is RIPE to pick up a used mint C6Z. They can be had in the mid $40k (maybe low 40's with mileage). To me, this car is a STEAL at $45k and worth every penny.
1) Oiling issue...we'll some have never had a problem and other have...just like all Corvette's. There was a VERY good write up on the C6Z forum about the Lingenfelter tank. A gentleman with very good instrumentation could replicate oil starvation on the stock motor, but when installed the Lingenfelter tank, he could not...period! I have NEVER heard of anyone with a Lingenfelter tank blow their motor due to oil starvation, so throw in $600 into your budget for the tank and be safe than sorry.
2) OEM brakes...like Dave said, the work fine (better than fine actually). The are MUCH better than C5 brakes...BUT the problem is servicability and cost. Eventually you will strip all the soft aluminum allen bolts and have to remove the caliper each time you change paddlets (oh yes paddlets...all 12 of them!!!) Also, you will eat through a set of expensive race pads in 2-3 days. And pads for the C6Z are the MOST expensive Corvette pads (double C5). So they will last 1/2 as long and cost twice as much...and no real cheap aftermarket rotor solution either...(but they have come down to $85 each). The only good thing about rotos is there is no left or right, so you can but one front and one rear and use them for either side when neccessary. Buying an aftermarket BBK for the front WILL save you money in only 2 years of HPDE and many broken knuckles changing pads.
3) Hoosier is your only choice for 19" rims and THEY ARE $$$$$. No scrubs available like for C5 on the forum, so unless you get new 18" rims, this is the single biggest expense of this car. Also, some have had problem with the computer and smaller diameter wheels.
4) Fluid temps are fine, no reason for aftermarket coolers unless you are running big cam or turbo or something. I see the same temps 260 oil, that I did in my C5 with a custom Dewitt's. I do recommend changing to a 160F thermostat, it does help.
5) I personally can't see buying such a beautiful high tech car like a C6Z to put a cage in it....personally if you are building a true race car, your better off with a C5 already caged and then mod to your desire. The C6Z is too nice to be gutted (unless you have stupid money).
6) Aero is a lot of money on any car, not sure you get that much benefit at the speeds we go. Even with all this power, most tracks you will top out in the mid 150's at most (and that is for less than a couple seconds). I think the money is better spent on suspension and brakes.
7) Suspension...to me the stock bushings are WAY too soft and so are the stock springs for TRUE track duty with Hoosiers. I bought coil overs with heavy springs and it made all the difference in the world.
Reliability so far has been good (I did manage to break 3rd gear, but warranty covered it). Also, with 2LZ car or higher, you have the seat airbag issue if you want to use race seats.
Bottom line for $45k this car is the supercar bargin of the century. With some intake/exhaust and suspension updates you are looking at basically the fastest car on the track. Unless someone brings a more heavily modified C6Z, nothing will touch it.
06-04-2010, 03:37 PM
#4
Racer
longdaddy, why are you thinking of something different than the C5Z? I know our cars are similarly prepped, and I know in the past I've pointed you by and you have pointed me by. I've felt that my C5Z has more in it, but my interest in actually going faster has diminished a bit.
BTW my dad and I are planning to attend the 6/22 Proformance Day, you going?
BTW my dad and I are planning to attend the 6/22 Proformance Day, you going?
06-04-2010, 04:34 PM
#5
Race Director
a small sticky tire is cheaper and faster than a big expensive street tire. My $75 slicks work fine
Again, aero testing in the works. I hope to come up with some mild improvements for very little money. Might not look so good though.......
Again, aero testing in the works. I hope to come up with some mild improvements for very little money. Might not look so good though.......
06-04-2010, 04:42 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
longdaddy, why are you thinking of something different than the C5Z? I know our cars are similarly prepped, and I know in the past I've pointed you by and you have pointed me by. I've felt that my C5Z has more in it, but my interest in actually going faster has diminished a bit.
BTW my dad and I are planning to attend the 6/22 Proformance Day, you going?
BTW my dad and I are planning to attend the 6/22 Proformance Day, you going?
I just want a faster car
Nothing wrong wtih my current setup except gearing. I hate C5Z gearing
06-04-2010, 04:57 PM
#7
Racer
ORP was an interesting experience, we ran counter-clockwise it was a little intimidating and it made me very queasy (I guess due to the elevation changes, banking and off camber corners). I would like to go back but I will wait until an event running clockwise.
Why not move up to Hoosiers? that would net you a faster car right now.
I get that the C6Z is an intriguing car for the $. I don't think anything else out there is competitive with it at the same price point. A 996TT or 997 GT3 would be nice though.
06-04-2010, 04:58 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Over 15,000 track miles
engine ok-still makes 481 HP
bushings are history
clutch is still there--but do not abuse it.
power steering pumps go fast.(2) If not under warrenty use a Turn1 pump.air cooling hose to both pump and alternator
sway bar links-6 sets. mounting bushings 2 sets
one set belts.
3 or 4 windshields
tried 3 sets of shocks-settled on Pfadt adjustable
Toyo slicks-305 and 335
2 front wheel bearings
Brakes-using stock calipers with SS pistons,braided lines,Carbotech 12's and 10's. 3 1/2" cooling hose.
DBA solid rotors and I fit each guide pin so the ends do not rub against rotors.
lots of added insulation to master cylinder,oil lines,clutch line etc.
A C6Z is 10% faster than a C5T1 car but costs 50% more to maintain.
engine ok-still makes 481 HP
bushings are history
clutch is still there--but do not abuse it.
power steering pumps go fast.(2) If not under warrenty use a Turn1 pump.air cooling hose to both pump and alternator
sway bar links-6 sets. mounting bushings 2 sets
one set belts.
3 or 4 windshields
tried 3 sets of shocks-settled on Pfadt adjustable
Toyo slicks-305 and 335
2 front wheel bearings
Brakes-using stock calipers with SS pistons,braided lines,Carbotech 12's and 10's. 3 1/2" cooling hose.
DBA solid rotors and I fit each guide pin so the ends do not rub against rotors.
lots of added insulation to master cylinder,oil lines,clutch line etc.
A C6Z is 10% faster than a C5T1 car but costs 50% more to maintain.
06-04-2010, 05:53 PM
#9
Safety Car
Good info. I run NT05s after 5 sets of oem GYs. About a second or two per lap quicker. I put on Cobalt CSR one piece pads and DBA 4000 rotors. Limit my sessions to 20 minutes, watch the oil temp and pressure and so far no issues. Sticky tires and the wheel bearings and bushings will wear much faster.
06-04-2010, 07:22 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
everyone- thanks for sharing, keep them coming.
Z11409 - I would like a car I can drive under its own power 600-800 miles to an event in a relative comfort, so stripped/fully caged cars are out, unfortunately.
Thanks for detailing the repairs - it does look pretty spendy. I have about the same amount of track miles and only had to do bushings once, although I did not start really using sticky tires until last year at which point I did start having issues with bearings/suspension wear.
ccj -
the trick to combat sickness at ORP is to keep your eyes up, which is hard to do on that track, use flag stations/distant hills and poles as references, it helps a lot compared to always staring at the track surface in front of you.
we do have a 996TT in the garage - nice car but about the same potential as C5z. GT3 would mean a ton of money to add 3rd p-car to the household, which is an overkill
I am about ready to finish off my first set of hoosiers. I can hang with faster cars on the brakes and through the turns, but once it's a drag race down the straight, I'm out of tricks.
Z11409 - I would like a car I can drive under its own power 600-800 miles to an event in a relative comfort, so stripped/fully caged cars are out, unfortunately.
Thanks for detailing the repairs - it does look pretty spendy. I have about the same amount of track miles and only had to do bushings once, although I did not start really using sticky tires until last year at which point I did start having issues with bearings/suspension wear.
ccj -
the trick to combat sickness at ORP is to keep your eyes up, which is hard to do on that track, use flag stations/distant hills and poles as references, it helps a lot compared to always staring at the track surface in front of you.
we do have a 996TT in the garage - nice car but about the same potential as C5z. GT3 would mean a ton of money to add 3rd p-car to the household, which is an overkill
I am about ready to finish off my first set of hoosiers. I can hang with faster cars on the brakes and through the turns, but once it's a drag race down the straight, I'm out of tricks.
06-04-2010, 09:54 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Oct 2007
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06-05-2010, 12:14 AM
#14
I upgraded from a highly modded C5 (about 500 hp) to a a 2006 C6 Z06
The C6Z just blows away the modded C5. Granted the C6Z has track brake pads and Hoosier Rs's, but so did the modded C5.
The C6Z has high cost in consumables...brake pads, rotors, tires, etc.
The 18/19 tire combination leave you will no other real tire choices other then Hoosier R6's @ $1700/set that lasts 3 events.
If you run fast tracks like Road America you will go through a $350 set of front pads in a day...(with padlets). Rotors last at about the same rate as tires...depending on the track...some are hell on tires, some on brakes.
I love my Z, I love being fast...I'm now thinking about geting a 4 cylinder Porsche to actually race and be able to buy cheap rotors, tires, brakes, etc.
The C6Z just blows away the modded C5. Granted the C6Z has track brake pads and Hoosier Rs's, but so did the modded C5.
The C6Z has high cost in consumables...brake pads, rotors, tires, etc.
The 18/19 tire combination leave you will no other real tire choices other then Hoosier R6's @ $1700/set that lasts 3 events.
If you run fast tracks like Road America you will go through a $350 set of front pads in a day...(with padlets). Rotors last at about the same rate as tires...depending on the track...some are hell on tires, some on brakes.
I love my Z, I love being fast...I'm now thinking about geting a 4 cylinder Porsche to actually race and be able to buy cheap rotors, tires, brakes, etc.
06-05-2010, 09:59 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
06-05-2010, 11:59 AM
#19
Race Director
I bought a set of repro 18x10.5's, and they were 9lbs EACH heavier than the speedlines. I promptly returned them and bought OEM. Also, while heavy, the spokes were thicker than OEM, so I think strength was probably fine.
06-05-2010, 12:38 PM
#20
I consider an e46 M3 repeatedly in my 'tracking quest'. I really want to get the smg transmissioned version and make it into a track beast. If the engine were an LS type v8 it would be a done deal, but the expense and other issues with the bmw inline 6 are a bit of a put off. The vette engine has really spoiled me.