Bill Dearborn

The first student session of the first day of the Trackmasters event at WGI my student and I witnessed an 06 Z06 flip over in Turn 6. The car was about a couple hundred feet in front of us as we went down the chute. Instead of turning in at the turn in point he just kept to the far right side of the track and only started turning when the pavement turned. The right side of the car went into the grass and went a little further to the right on the grass where it started sideswiping the tire wall. Once it hit the tires they just seemed to grab it and pull it in to the point the right front rode up onto the tire wall. When the car got to the point where it was completely on its side it sort of stopped and held there just a moment and then fell backwards onto its roof. The right side A pillar collapsed but the Halo bar held up very well. The instructor on that side had his head pushed forward as the top came in on him due to the A pillar collapsing. There wasn't enough room to crawl out his side of the car so he had to crawl out of the driver's side. Neither occupant was hurt.

That is one of the scariest things I have witnessed. Definitely a sobering sight.

Bill

the blur

Down hill left hander,
He was probably down shifting there too, which takes experience to get right.

That's a bad turn to get wrong.

Not often a vette flips over. Non that I have ever seen anyway.

AU N EGL

Damn Bill


What run group experience level was that in ?

Wicked Weasel

Glad everyone is ok.

95jersey

WG is a very dangerous place with very high speeds, and needs to be respected beyond the average track. Glad to hear the occupants are OK.

That is scary that the roof pushed the guys neck...what if he was wearing a HANS??? Your neck CAN'T be pushed forward (that is the point of HANS)...would it have broken his back???

I wear a HANS (just recently this year) and the way my Sparco seat sits in my C6Z, I have very little to no helmet clearence (maybe 1/4" at most) to the ceiling.

This is making me think a little. If I am locked in tight with a 5 point harness and a HANS... and that roof comes down on me, I got NO where to go...I assume it would simply break your back.

sothpaw2

I've respected it so much that I've not tried it yet! Definitely it's not a beginner's track. I'll keep holding off for a while longer.

Wicked Weasel

Third day on the track was WGI in the rain. it is a great track you just need to know the areas where if you push it you will not destroy your car. That being said screwing up in turn 6 usually equals damage (the track runs out quickly if you early apex and if you wait too long the track turns away from you and then this happens).

Wicked Weasel

Looking at the odds there is a much better chance of head on collision versus rolling over so I will continue to wear my HANS.

95jersey

Agree 100%. In my case I use a Sparco universal seat mount and a slider, which makes the seat sit fairly high compared to a typical floor mount (like hardbar). I could probably get a 1-2" reduction or more by switching to a hardbar mount is my thought, but don't really know if it would do any good.

Bill Dearborn

This happened in the Intermediate Student Level run group. I think we were on our 2nd or 3rd lap. Supposedly the driver felt the brakes get spongy going into the bus stop but didn't tell the instructor. Then going into 6 he said the pedal went to the floor. Probably didn't go to the floor but felt like it. With the dual diagonal brake system it is highly unlikely he lost more than half the brakes even with a hydraulic line failure.

I was in my student's Viper and a BMW and the Vette passed us just before entering the bus stop. Just before the BMW made the turn into the bus stop I thought the Vette was going to hit it. He did look like he was having trouble slowing or maybe thinking about taking the run off straight ahead on the old track. But he made the turn. We followed them through the bus stop and lost sight of them going around the carousel but caught sight of the Vette again as it was past the normal braking and turn in for T6. Both my student and I said at the same time "What's he doing over there?" Then it got nasty. The reason I think he didn't lose all of his braking is that he could have been going 100+ as he entered the down hill chute. If he didn't have any brakes he wouldn't have slowed down to the speed we saw him going when his wheels left the pavement.

A roll bar wouldn't have done any good in this crash. The roof halo (B Pillar) held up really well. The fiberglass surround was cracked but the halo kept that part of the roof from collapsing. Everything was due to the right side A Pillar collapsing. If it wouldn't have collapsed the car probably could have been flipped back over and driven off the track. Damage to the running gear looked like it was mainly scratches. Of course both side mirrors were severely damaged.

Bill

sperkins

95jersey

I remember the intermediate group and always found that place to be the scariest to drive. You have a great disparity between drivers (some that have only had 4-5 track days and other that have been hanging out in that group for years). You get the guys that after 6 track days thinking they "got it down", and while they may have the basics, many of them don't have the experience to correct bad situations yet. At least in the novice, mostly everyone is new and in the advanced everyone has been around for quite some time. It is that middle group that always made me a little nervous. I think this is why PDA actually seperates them into 2 sub groups to seperate the newbies from the more seasoned intermediates.

BrianCunningham

Han Solo

Glad they are both okay!


I've run without safety gear in my Mustang for years but finally went off track a couple of weekends back at RRR. It was my first track event on some used Hoosiers. The car didn't feel right the whole day but I thought I had it under control. I was on my second session when this happened. Watching the video I had to catch it a little in 7 then it pushed out on me in 9 and went off. They tell you over and over not to try to correct if you go off there because of the concrete wall on the right. When I got in the grass it started coming around and I had no control at all. It ended up doing a 360 then coming to rest against the chain link fence and bushes. Lucky enough it just put some scratches on the front fender and popped the rear bumper cover loose in one spot. The whole time it was doing the 360 I was thinking it could catch and flip at any time.

IMO the V710 Kumho is much more predictable no matter how old they are. The bottom line was I was just pushing it to hard for the available traction.

I'm now cage shopping and probably swearing off used tires!

longdaddy

intermediate group is indeed the scariest.

Joseesp

I don't think the use of a HANS is recommended without a cage. And another thing, the use of a 6 point harness is much more comfortable for a man, if you get what I mean.

trackboss

FWIW, a few months back I put my car into a tire wall because of no brakes. No failures, but it appears as though I picked up a screw in the RF tire and the abs was full on. I remember the pedal being super firm, but the car would not stop or steer. I tried pumping the pedal several times, with the same result. It didn't start working until it was too late. I have always disliked abs for many reasons and never used it on any race cars. This is one huge disadvantage of the factory abs systems. I honestly believe if I had non abs brakes I would not have even left the pavement.

DOUG @ ECS

Thats the same turn that the Porsche driver was killed a few years back that mandated the "threw the seat" belt rule for aftermarket seat belts. That track will probably always be my favorite for the "dancing with the devil" factor, but it's no joke. Glad to hear no one was hurt.

stano

I've got to ask this question, does everyone racing and not using a cage feel they are good enough drivers that they don't need it? What about oil on the track?? I've seen 4 cars at a time go off at Willow Springs in turn 3 because of fluid. I'm right now looking at another car with a cage because my car in the avatar was just rolled 3 times ( not by me ) and if it wasn't for the cage I hate to think of what could have happened. The guy walked away. It scared the crap out of me watching it and now that I'm settled down a bit I'm glad I spent the money to cage it. I'll never go on a track again in a non caged car.

Is the clock ticking in this case....

RDnomorecobra

yep, PDA I think a week before I was there.