How much camber is too much?
08-29-2010, 09:10 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
How much camber is too much?
I took some pyrometer readings for my buddy this weekend. He had a nice temp gradient across the tires, 180 ish at the inside edge, 150 or so at the outside, after four laps on a 2.9 mile course with 30 pounds starting pressure in 92 degree ambient, 102 track temp. Tires were Hoosier R6, brand new. The problem is, that temp gradient looks too steep to me. It was even, but 30 degrees from inside edge to outside seems like a lot. My question is: Can too much camber hurt you one a longer track with big straights?
08-29-2010, 09:38 PM
#3
Drifting
30 degrees is too much. The last event I ran at I had it to 5 degrees from inside, center, to outside.
As Brian stated, too much camber will reduce your braking capacity and have you in the ABS a lot. It will prematurely wear the inside of the tires out, and also affects your power application on corner-off.
FWIW, I'm running 2.2 deg in the front and 1.6 deg in teh rear, and on a 2.4 mile 17 turn course with every combination of turns you could imagine (increasing radius, decreasing, carousels, sweepers, double apex, blah blah blah) it seemed to be spot on.
On a separate note, R6s like hot pressures around 37-39.
As Brian stated, too much camber will reduce your braking capacity and have you in the ABS a lot. It will prematurely wear the inside of the tires out, and also affects your power application on corner-off.
FWIW, I'm running 2.2 deg in the front and 1.6 deg in teh rear, and on a 2.4 mile 17 turn course with every combination of turns you could imagine (increasing radius, decreasing, carousels, sweepers, double apex, blah blah blah) it seemed to be spot on.
On a separate note, R6s like hot pressures around 37-39.
08-29-2010, 10:21 PM
#4
Race Director
I agree 30deg is generally on the high side, BUT that's assuming you are coming in hot, and the tires are being worked right up to the time you take the temps. Also, rear temps are generally worthless on tracks with low speed, high torque corners.
Also, many tires these days offer more grip with ultra low pressures, even if the temps would lead you to think differently. It is a balance of taking tire temps, lap times, and seat-of-the-pants judgement to find actual outright performance. There are conditions/tires which do better with low pressure, high camber, even if the temps don't show it.
That being said, I generally find -1.8deg front is enough to get good performance, rarely have I ever found more than -2.25 to be necessary.
Also, many tires these days offer more grip with ultra low pressures, even if the temps would lead you to think differently. It is a balance of taking tire temps, lap times, and seat-of-the-pants judgement to find actual outright performance. There are conditions/tires which do better with low pressure, high camber, even if the temps don't show it.
That being said, I generally find -1.8deg front is enough to get good performance, rarely have I ever found more than -2.25 to be necessary.
08-30-2010, 01:17 AM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
I agree 30deg is generally on the high side, BUT that's assuming you are coming in hot, and the tires are being worked right up to the time you take the temps. Also, rear temps are generally worthless on tracks with low speed, high torque corners.
Also, many tires these days offer more grip with ultra low pressures, even if the temps would lead you to think differently. It is a balance of taking tire temps, lap times, and seat-of-the-pants judgement to find actual outright performance. There are conditions/tires which do better with low pressure, high camber, even if the temps don't show it.
That being said, I generally find -1.8deg front is enough to get good performance, rarely have I ever found more than -2.25 to be necessary.
Also, many tires these days offer more grip with ultra low pressures, even if the temps would lead you to think differently. It is a balance of taking tire temps, lap times, and seat-of-the-pants judgement to find actual outright performance. There are conditions/tires which do better with low pressure, high camber, even if the temps don't show it.
That being said, I generally find -1.8deg front is enough to get good performance, rarely have I ever found more than -2.25 to be necessary.
08-30-2010, 01:54 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
08-30-2010, 07:33 AM
#8
Race Director
I don't have a definite answer for you, but it's not much. There is only so much physical room for the bushings to deflect, so I think you'd be looking at 1/4deg max, maybe less.
08-30-2010, 08:26 AM
#9
Racer
-3.2 and 1/8" out eats the insides, not horribly, but they are cording before the tire has finished it's useful life.
but it's fast.
I may go slightly less aggressive for RA and VIR in the future, but it works well at CMP
but it's fast.
I may go slightly less aggressive for RA and VIR in the future, but it works well at CMP
08-30-2010, 08:34 AM
#10
-2.2 front and I was cording the outside prematurely. I'm running -2.8 which Frank and Steve reported having very even wear on Hoosiers.
08-30-2010, 08:51 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
You want the inside to be 5-8 degrees warmer than the middle and the outside to be the same as the middle or just a few degrees warmer. You can't always get that.
You want the car to ride on the inside on the straights. Too flat and you get too much drag. Look at the Indy cars and F1 Camber.
Jim
You want the car to ride on the inside on the straights. Too flat and you get too much drag. Look at the Indy cars and F1 Camber.
Jim
