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Bondurant & Spring Mountain.... what's the differences?

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Old 10-13-2010, 09:25 AM
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LEAVINU
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Default Bondurant & Spring Mountain.... what's the differences?

I'm very interested in doing a Z06 driving experience at one of these facilities. Can those with experience at either chime in and tell me your thoughts?

Let's hear some stories.
Old 10-13-2010, 11:05 AM
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billy25us
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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...-mountain.html

Here is a write I did when I finished SM last year.
Old 10-13-2010, 11:45 AM
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LEAVINU
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Nice writeup, thanks for posting that. I read that the Bondurant folks are more "give it all you got" than the SM folks. That is definitely appealing to really get my monies worth.

Keep the stories/experiences coming please.
Old 10-13-2010, 12:48 PM
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63Corvette
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What is your goal? Spring Mountain is more for "fun" of driving a Corvette on a racetrack. The bondurant school has several different cirricula, but at least one of them is to teach you how to RACE....that is wheel to wheel. So, what do you want to do.........
Old 10-13-2010, 01:31 PM
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Spring Mountain is more for "fun" of driving a Corvette on a racetrack
Did the 3 day a few years ago and didn't get to really open things up until the last day, Regardless it was still a positive experience.
Old 10-13-2010, 01:48 PM
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I have been to both and liked them both very much, however, if I was to go back again to either, it would be Bondurant.

The facilty in general is a little more upscale, the drive time was a little more, and faster paced if you were up to it earlier. I had to wait until the last day at Spring Mountain to open it up, and because one person went off course right away, we were all called in and lost one of our limited all out sessions. Where as at Bondurant, we were on track for most of the day, or all of the day, at speed, everyday. you might have been called in if you were driving outside your skill level, but if not, you could hammer down all day.

btw, spend the extra bucks for the open wheel cars, it's well worth it!

Old 10-13-2010, 02:01 PM
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Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch is a high performance driver's paradise. We are just 45 miles west of Las Vegas, we offer Performance Driving and Racing schools for all experience levels.



We are home to the Ron Fellows Performance Driving School, The Official High Performance Driving School of Chevrolet. We have almost completed updating our entire fleet of cars to 2010 and 2011 Grand Sports, ZR6 and ZR1s. We also have 4 Camero SS that you can take out for a session if you choose. Our instructors love them

Ron has done a fantastic job incorporating his knowledge of Corvette racing into the program. You will learn thing here that you won't be able to get anywhere else. Even if you attended the course just a year ago, you will notice significant changes. I believe our instructors and staff are second to none.

We run our program on a true road course, purpose built to showcase the performance of the Corvette and to keep you challenged and entertained. The 2.2 mile road course features fast sweeping corners, tight hair pins, quick esses, a replica of Mosport's turns 5a/5b and 125 ft of elevation change. With our new .6 mile track extension, we've added a Watkins Glen style bus stop and a Road America style 50 ft wide turn with 4 degrees of banking. This extension makes our front straight 1700 ft long and our back straight 2640 ft (1/2 mile) long!



As I mentioned earlier, we do offer racing schools, there is the Radical Racing School where you pilot the purpose built Radical racer though corners at unbelievable speeds. We also offer an SCCA Licensing Recommendation Program if you are interested in obtaining your SSCA racing license.



Spring Mountain is also the home of the premier motorsports country club, Club Spring Mountain. The amenities include: men and women's locker rooms with showers, pool, jacuzzi, fitness center, indoor racquetball court, indoor gun range, rock climbing wall and when you are ready to relax, massage therapy.

Students, while in class, can enjoy all the amenities and benefits of club membership, all for no additional cost. If you choose to bring your family, they will be able to relax in comfort and enjoy the amenities all the amenities.



Spring Mountain is committed to offering people a fantastic experience, I know you won't be disappointed.

Let me know if you have any questions.





Ken
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Old 10-13-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 63Corvette
What is your goal? Spring Mountain is more for "fun" of driving a Corvette on a racetrack. The bondurant school has several different cirricula, but at least one of them is to teach you how to RACE....that is wheel to wheel. So, what do you want to do.........

Great question 63.

I have plenty of hours behind the wheel of the 2 vettes I've owned driving close to the limit. I've done a few track days and push the car every time. I have no plans to become a pro racer or even a Time Attack racer. My bank account won't hear of it.

I really want to 1) go out west and see the lands 2) learn from a professional instructor more than I have learned thus far 3) push a car to the limits in an environment where I can be critiqued over and over again. I'm all for learning and bettering anything I do.

However, I do not feel I need to learn the basics of turn in, smoothness, shifting, etc. Yes, I know I can still grow in these areas but I'd rather not to be in a group where there are those that have never driven in these types of situations or hp cars. I'm committing a ton of money to one of these events for travel, class, etc so I don't want to feel as if I am being shorted at ANYTIME during my time away. This is the kindof feeling it seems someone above posted about their time at SM.


Hope this helps in the feedback.
Old 10-13-2010, 04:00 PM
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LEAVINU,

At Spring Mountain we actually have 3 levels for driving schools so I'm sure we can find one to fit your needs. I think if you do a little research on here you will find that the overwhelming number of students have nothing but great things to say about the instructors.

Feel free to email or PM me if you have any questions.

Ken
Old 10-13-2010, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LEAVINU
Great question 63.

I have plenty of hours behind the wheel of the 2 vettes I've owned driving close to the limit. I've done a few track days and push the car every time. I have no plans to become a pro racer or even a Time Attack racer. My bank account won't hear of it.

I really want to 1) go out west and see the lands 2) learn from a professional instructor more than I have learned thus far 3) push a car to the limits in an environment where I can be critiqued over and over again. I'm all for learning and bettering anything I do.

However, I do not feel I need to learn the basics of turn in, smoothness, shifting, etc. Yes, I know I can still grow in these areas but I'd rather not to be in a group where there are those that have never driven in these types of situations or hp cars. I'm committing a ton of money to one of these events for travel, class, etc so I don't want to feel as if I am being shorted at ANYTIME during my time away. This is the kindof feeling it seems someone above posted about their time at SM.


Hope this helps in the feedback.
Hey Leavin,

It's definitely good to hear what your goals are because, as 63 noted, the courses do vary.

The 2-Day Z06 Experience has the same course content as our High Performance Driving course. I.e., it is more of a car control clinic than a track-focused racing course.

The 3- or 4-Day Grand Prix Road Racing course, on the other hand, is the signature class. It's designed to really get you dialed in to handle at-the-limit, on-track driving, and will also cover race starts and restarts for SCCA licensing purposes.

Given that you've done a few track days, you might find day 1 of the Grand Prix course to be a little slow because we do work on the basics: skid control, threshold braking, heel-toe downshifting, etc. You'll also run an extended session on our oval track which features both a constant radius and increasing radius turn. It seems simple, but the two turns require different lines, amounts of brake pressure and trail-braking, etc., and you'll need that time to practice and get a feel for the techniques you're applying. Last April when NASCAR was in town, Joey Logano came out for two hours just to drive that oval and get a quick refresher along with a few of the Nationwide guys that were here for our 2-day Advanced class. It's best to start slow to improve muscle memory and trained reactions so that when you really attack the track you can take full advantage.

Days 2 and 3 are intensive days on track where the speeds and challenges pick up rapidly as the instructors vary the track configuration. Day 4 (if you decide to stay) is another full day of track time in our open-wheel Formula Mazdas.

Given that you'll get 4.5-5 hours behind the wheel each day and we have a strict ratio of no more than 3 students per instructor (plenty of time with them riding right-seat), I don't think you'll feel shortened at all, even with the introductory exercises on Day 1. The class sizes are also very small (9-12 max) to help facilitate personalized training.

Please let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!

Eric
Old 10-13-2010, 05:00 PM
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Here is my writeup on my trip to Bondurant

Originally Posted by Wicked Weasel
Last Year Doug@ECS and I had the opportunity to go to Bondurant Racing School to participate in their 4 day Grand Prix class.

We arrived early the first day of classes and had the normal check in that you would expect. As we waited we could see the racing heritage that comes with Bob Bondurant throughout the entire location. Bob, one of the great drivers of our era, unfortunately had to end his racing career early due to an accident at Watkins Glen, but as the 4 days passed us by, you could see that even if he is not racing anymore his racing influence and his life dreams continue each day at the school.

I realize that this post is about the school, but without knowing the man behind the school you will not completely appreciate the school. Bob happen to be between travels and at the school for 2 days while we were there. He (and we cannot forget his dog) came in during our break and he personally shook hands with everyone there. He thanked all of us for coming to his school and he listened to our comments. Maybe this doesn’t mean much to most people, but beyond the fact that I was shaking hands with an American Racer who started car racing in a Corvette and eventually drove for Ferrari in F1, the OWNER of the school took time out of his day to make sure everything was what we expected.

I did capitalize owner on purpose. The reason I did was because I found out that Ford requested Bob to basically give them his racing school and they would continue to use his name. Bob personally felt that if his name was going to be on the school that he was going to continue to control the school which required him to own the school. Ford did try to leverage Bob into selling by saying they were not going to supply Fords anymore (yes Bondurant Racing School was all Fords at one time), but Bob worked out a 1 year deal with Ford and eventually got GM to become the sponsor. BTW – GM as a sponsor is a good deal for the students. All the cars were new and were stock except for seats with a harness (Bob felt that you are more connected with the car with a race seat and harness and that is why his cars have them), brake pads and I believe the tires. Otherwise it is basically what you are buying off the showroom floor. Twice per day (lunch and at night) the cars were inspected and tested to ensure everything was in working condition.

Anyway back to the school. Each day at the school is a building block for the next day so after 3 days you should have a good foundation to take with you and continue to build your skills.

The instructors all have some sort of racing experience and the Chief Instructor Mike McGovern you might have seen on Speed this year racing the Miller Cup Mustang Challenge. Each instructor has 2 or 3 of their own students. The activities are done as a group, but you have an assigned instructor which I like because that instructor stays with you the full time you are there so by the end of day 1 he knows your strengths and weaknesses.

The course is 20% class time and 80% in car time. Having 80% in car time you would think you would get tired of the same track in 3 days, but Bondurant has many different variations of the track which keep you on your toes and keeps it new all the time. You learn heel/toe techniques, crash avoidance, trail braking, car balance, skid control, and the list continues. Personally I learned more about car balance and trail braking in 2 days than I have in 3 years on the track. This knowledge I quickly applied to my car when I came back to NJ and found myself much more confident coming into turns at higher speeds.

All this builds you up for day 3 which is the day you qualify for your SCCA regional competition license. I have been on the race track for a few years now, but the adrenaline rush of green flag starts and yellow flag starts is intense even if it is not a real race.

After day 3 some people left and were completely happy, but Doug and myself stayed for the Bondurant Open wheel cars. There was a quick classroom review of the cars and what to expect. We then all went out to see the cars and continue our discussion. After that we were on the track. We started with the small track and eventually moved to the middle track and then the long track. There were hours of track time only broken up by lunch and you needing to take a break. I can say without a doubt you must stay and drive these cars. They are unbelievable fun. They are nothing like a vette since they weigh little and handle like a go cart. Doug said to me dont brake prior to one of the turns and just stay in it. I was like that is crazy, but of course I was going to do it. Halfway through the turn I was thinking Doug better be right because I am now committed. WOW the car just stuck to the ground.

At the end of the day we meet for the last time in the classroom. We were handed a very nice plague with our names, the date and the class we took. We were also handed a log book showing our improvements throughout the week and our overall score. The log book is what is used to get your regional competition license.

After we left Doug and I had time to reflect and realized just how much we learned and how the little things that Bondurant does makes it all worth it. We all consider how much track time and the quality of the instruction as the major decision factor when picking a school, but many times we overlook the small things that for the money we pay for training should not be overlooked. The custom plague is a nice touch over a paper certificate. Lunch was free at a restaurant where you could pick anything you wanted and a bonus the food was very good – lol. There were always towels soaking in ice water for you to grab and wipe your face off. There were plenty of fresh water dispensers throughout the area and Gatorade mix was available. There was a locker room with showers that we could use. The grounds were always spotless and the cars were always clean and ready to go. All of the staff were very nice and helpful. These little things to me are as important as the major items because it shows the school goes beyond just training and realizes that you paid good money you should be treated as such.

Instruction, car time, the little things and Bob Bondurant's influence in every detail make Bondurant the complete package.







Bob
Old 10-13-2010, 07:02 PM
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I had a lot of fun at Bondurant, 4 day school and learned a bit.
I wish we could've run the C6s w/o nannies. And I wished they had times/telemetry.
The shifter kart experience was fun, but the track was sandy (icy).
They have upgraded the open wheelers, so it is an even better deal (I had issues with a couple of mine). The open wheelers are dangerous - you'll drive those and wonder why you have a C5/C6. Fast, cheap, even more fun as they are so much more direct. Of course, some work on the C5/6 gets rid of the slop, but being a few inches of the ground with a dog box and unassisted brakes is awesome. No more compromises.
Old 10-16-2010, 03:33 PM
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if you have more than 10-15 track days, the SM level 1 is Not for you.
Ask them for the level 2.

The level 1 is very basic.
The level 2 is better if your really into this, and have some experience with your own car.
Old 10-16-2010, 07:46 PM
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I have been to Spring Mountain , Panoz and Boundarant x3 . All different . It depends on what you want to get out of it . I have nothing bad to say about any of them . Although there is no Panoz am thinking about Skip Barber or going back to SM or B before spring . . I just love to drive . There isn't anyone you can't learn from. They all have great instructors with different competitive racing levels . Everyone needs to go over basics every now and then , slows you down a little so you can learn .
Old 10-16-2010, 08:35 PM
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Spring Mountain is cheaper and extremely fun.

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