RacePro Engineering

Gentlemen,

I just now noticed this new Sticky, and since it is the "off season", here's a topic on which we could use some authoritative information:

The other day, an acquaintance asserted that most, if not all, of the ALMS teams have migrated to "greener" race fuel. I had to admit that I was unfamiliar with this trend, and quizzed him on the topic. Well, it turns out that he had as much actual detail on the subject as I might know about the the habits of migratory birds in Zambowie (is that still a country?)

So, for the sake of discussion, what do you distinguished colleagues know about the formulations of the fuels being used, generally, or in particular?

Ready to learn -
Ed LoPresti

Sidney004

Dyson Racing uses BP Isobutanol/Ethanol Race blend ALMS iBE 20
•Specific Gravity: .783 @ 60°F
•MON: 91.7
•R+M/2: 98.4
•RON: 105
•RVP: 7.98
•Oxygen Content: 6.46% by weight
•Distillation:
10% Evap @143.3 °F
50% Evap @184.6 °F
90% Evap @226.6 °F
FBP 230.2 °F


The other teams that use "IMSA E85R" are using a VP Racing Fuels E66(or so I was told by a VP rep delivering the fuel at Laguna Seca) that is a combination of 34% racing unleaded gasoline and 66% Ethanol. This fuel is not listed on the VP master catalog as available for sale to the general public.
https://forms.imsaracing.net/forms/2008/vpfuels.cfm

jwt1603

Link to some of the details of the green initiatve on their site. Michelin is grading teams on how green they are overal, not just fuel type.

http://www.americanlemans.com/primar...at=green|13084

And yes Zimbabwe is still a country but barely.

jwt1603

Yep.

Unless I get sent out of town for work again like last year.

RacePro Engineering

Sidney & Joe,

Thank you for the information, and I am sorry about butchering Zimbabwe's spelling, although I still know nothing about their birds. I appreciate those links, too. So there was more than just a grain of truth in what our acquaintance was saying, referring to the Green initiative.

The next level of this topic in which I would be interested is your thoughts about:
How much of this Green is "environment motivated"? How much of it is performance motivated (alternate means of achieving excellent race performance)? How much of it is "politically correct" motivated? And, how much of it is current trend (hot topic) motivated?

Any additional thoughts?
Ed

jwt1603

It's probably all marketing and political correctness. I got stuck in charge of the "E" program at work so I'm very familiar with the subject. All the decisions to do something or not are based on what kind of publicity a company will get out of it. The "bang for the buck" is based on how much good press is generated, not whether or not it will actually do something good for the environment.

This approach works because most of the general public doesn't really know all that much about the details and facts of "green" programs. For example, you can call your company green and put it on all of your marketing materials and people think you're doing something. In reality there is no control over what you put on your letterhead. You can say what you want but there is no control or verification process.

I've been to too many seminars with other companies and been involved in too many projects like this to believe any company that says they're going green for the good of the planet. They're doing it for money and the "good" press they get out of it. If it doesn't make them money the stockholders don't want to hear about it.

Rant off. Sorry about that....

RacePro Engineering

Thanks, Joe,

The cynical side of me was showing as I wrote those questions, although I was half-hoping that there was some evidence to the contrary.

I was further wondering if there is true progress toward a "better burn" fuel, using the ethanol blends. We have been using leaded race fuel for years and years, where octane is boosted by adding lead (like avgas). We are curious if these "greener" fuels are approaching the old tried-and-true petrol in ability to make a motor produce power.

Happy New Year to ALL!
Ed

jwt1603

Maybe ALMS will get some decent TV exposure now.

http://www.racer.com/american-le-man...MC-RACER_DAILY

Rob31

The programming director for Speed Channel should go back to the Janitor position where they got him .

grantar2

I would agree with you, in that what is done has to make sense for the shareholders for the company to care. However that value can be defined in many ways. I am involved for my company and the presures to be green come from a number of directions. The first is our prime customer the federal gov, says they are going to make it a selection criteria for contract awards. Our specific key customer the U.S. Navy wants out of the oil paradigm for ships and airplanes. So that is what we are working on. However as a practical matter green can be a long term cost savings, and help reduce liability. If you thing green in design of both plant and product design you can better control liability related to toxics, and long term waste disposal as well as energy costs. The best result has been for our shop guys. One of the easiest and most cost effective emissions reduction projects we had was to fix shop equipment, elimintate leaks and loss from compressed air lines (thus the motors don't have to run as much)[serious savings] and when equipment gets turned on and off, rather than sitting on stand by. Replaced really old electric motors, pumps, etc.

Worked well. Yes companies only do it becuase they have to, but when they decided to play it's amazing how many employees join in to help.

In the not to distant future our parking lots will have charging stations as well as solar pannels. A lot of exterior plant lightning has already gone solar. We have embraced telecommuting at a number of our sites which has other side benifits.

I agree it's self serving, there aren't a lot of rules that govern what constitutes green, but you have to start somewhere. My company like a number of large companies are evaluated by others, in our case we get to deal with Fortune and Forbes magazines, as well as the Congressional Budget Office reports.

I don't think the general public cares anymore about this topic than they did appartied, or compaines making money off of war, etc. But at the end of the day, government regulators care, and that drives change.

With U.S. Coal and Oil reserves, the oil found off of Brazil's coast we wouldn't be worried about energy nearly as much if it weren't for global warming and it's observed and predicted effects. I for one am not convinced this isn't a natural cycle, but it is real in its effects. Governments are trying to do what they can besides just build new breakwaters.

jwt1603

Aston sponsored by milk?

http://www.racer.com/cytosport-partn...MC-RACER_DAILY

zipity

Anyone headed to the Baltimore Grand Prix over Labor Day weekend with the Indy Light Series?

Any word of IMSA setting up a Corvette Corral parking?

0FORGED DST

I would really like to go to that race too. But it is a long way off. Street races are very cool if the course isn't too tight , and you actually have good site lines. I've been to Long Beach and its pretty good if you have good tickets/access. The old Miami Grand Prix course was good too.......then they messed it up by making it too tight, and too many barricades. The St. Pete course was no good, Denver too tight, West Palm Beach likewise.

I've never seen Detroit in person.

jerry

bomalley

We're going to the Long Beach Grand Prix in April but haven't seen anything about a Corvette Corral. Does anybody know if they're having one?

Giant Killer

Anyone else as PO'd as I am over the fact that The Corvette Race team moves Johnny O'Connell, their most loyal driver, down to a lower tier series and replaces him with a Brit and one young relatively inexperienced American. I have supported the Corvette guys from day one, and respect and admire the drivers but with all the top level American driving talent that are out of rides it is odd that they only can find room in a 6 driver team for one American. One American driving for a racing team racing American built Corvettes. How about giving the Corvette fans an American team to cheer for and follow? I read the interview announcing the new additions to the team and the spokesman said the Corvette is a Global Brand. There is the answer, evidently drivers are hired by GM's marketing dept. No flag waving here. Not the American flag, anyway. "America's Sports Car" --- not any more.

Giant Killer

I noticed quite a bit of discussion about sight lines and such at Street races. Street races tend to be an event, not a race and as such leave a lot to be desired for a race fan. Cars such as run the ALMS are like a bull in a china shop in a race run on city streets. A street race for those guys is similar to indoor midget racing. Except you can see the whole track at a midget race. The ALMS drivers can't actually race, they just try to survive. Road racing belongs on natural terrain road courses. Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta, Road America, Laguna Seca, Sebring, Mosport, etc. That is where the fan can see those beasts do what they were designed to do. The drivers can actually race and the fans get what they pay for. The fan can stroll from corner to corner and not have to worry about choosing the correct reserved seats to get the best sight lines. Of course if you are General Admission the chance of seeing any of the race is in direct proportion to your height. I quit wasting my time and $s on street races years ago. The bottom line is; if you want to see racing go to a race track.

Giant Killer

You may want to re-read the article and especially the comments following. Fans seem to be upset.

joemoia

http://www.gplb.com/downloads/2011CorvetteCorral.pdf

shakedown067

For those going to the 12hrs of Sebring with campsites or a sebring themed car....
Sebring Cruise and Campsite Contest

Rob Willis

Muscle Milk's Aston Martin LMP sure does look good!