c4cruiser

Both of my G-Force harness belt sets have gone beyond their expiration dates and I was wondering if anyone has had their belts re-webbed.

For G-Force belts, there is about a $15 per set savings and I assume that re-webbed belts will carry a new two year acceptance period. All metal components are checked for wear and tear and replaced as necessary. Takes about 3 weeks to have done.

Do other companies like Simpson, RJC and RCI have similar programs?

bobmoore2

Most (if not all) racing harness manufacturers have a re-webbing program. It's a good value.

johninar

Yep, as was mentioned above, most do it.
Just got my Crow 6 point harness (driver and pass) back on Friday.
it was around $100 to get it done. Took about 10 days total round trip.

95jersey

Not to create an argument, I know these things have dates and while race orgs require up to date belts, time trial and HPDE does not, but here is my real question.

Would one say that a 5 point harness is a higher quality belt than an OEM seat belt? If so, how come seat belts in cars don't need replacement (ever). This is probably going to go down as one of my dumbest posts as a guy who has been doing this for years, but I would love to hear the reasoning.

JDIllon

The same reason that you have to replace helmets. To sell more stuff!! The only reason I can think that you would need to replace belts is because of UV from the sun or a crash?? Just my .02 JD

bobmoore2

Racing harnesses are MUCH BETTER quality than normal car seat belts. Race harnesses are made with much higher quality materials. A 5-point or 6-point harness will hold you in the seat in a crash much better than any production 3-point could. Production seat belts also make several compromises for user ease and comfort, that seriously degrade their safety capabilities. So why aren't production car seat belts more like racing harnesses? The DOT (Department Of Transportation, who makes the production car seat belt regulations) knows that the majority of drivers simply would not wear seat belts that are uncomfortable, "too-restrictive" during normal driving, or difficult to put on & take off. The DOT has intentionally compromised the safety characteristics to some degree to increase the number of habitual seat belt users. In the end, this policy does save more lives.

The DOT also knows that the majority of drivers would never accept a mandate to replace their belts at regular intervals, because they do not understand how fast the webbing deterioriates. It is also true that production seat belts deterioriate slower because window glass is blocking most of the UV rays, and because average drivers wear their seat belts very loosely across their body.

Without knowing it JD, you've hit the nail on the head.

The webbing deterioriates over time, getting more likely to tear or stretch excessively under the heavy loads from a crash. UV is a big contributor, but normal usage (rubbing on the fittings and against your body, being tightly cinched down, etc.) can cause a lot of fraying and stretching in the fibers, too. Since HARD crashes are more likely to happen in racing, one needs to know that the belt webbing won't fail when needed most.

If you care about your safety and the safety of your family, then your production car seat belts should be replaced every 8 to 10 years. If you see seat belts in a friend's car that are frayed, partly cut, faded, or just looking old, you should cut the belts in two with a sharp knife. When your friend finishes cussing you out (you know he will be livid angry), explain to him how dangerous the old belts were, and tell him that you very well may have saved his life, by forcing him to buy new seat belts. The belts should also be replaced if they were in use during a crash, because the crash put a huge amount of strain on the belts which means they are more likely to fail in a subsequent crash.

dfinke23

I think what 95jersey is referring to is that you can pass tech with stock 3 point belts of any age (in good condition), but superior, older racing harnesses will not.

95jersey

All good points, and I am aware of how UV slowly deteriorates the webbing. But I have never heard of a set belt failing in a car that is even 20 years old.

There are better reasons than comfort that 5/6 points are not manditory in cars. Without a HANS you are less safe than with the stock 3 point harness (which has some "give" so you fall into the airbag. If everyone were driving around strapped into 5 points, in a crash, you'd most likely never see the airbag or it's benefits. Your head would come right off your body, now that everything is wrapped SO tight (except your bobble head). After doing track days and time trials and all this stuff for 10 years, I consider myself lucky I never had an incident. But at this point, I would never strap into a 5/6 point with a HANS or other certified neck restraint. You are just asking to die in even a minor crash.

If stock seat belts were unsafe after a period of time, DOT would require owners to replace them (like tires in state inspections). I have been in 20 year old cars in crashes as a youth driver and the seat belt never was an issue. What is it about the OEM belt (which sits in UV MORE than a race car), lasts longer than a "supposed" race harness?

I guess I am just stating the obvious and creatig an argument none of us knows the answer. It just seems like BS that these belts expire so quickly.

johninar

I think for racing organizations there is no easy way to weed out the suspect belts without a time frame. Anything else would require an opinion by a possibly unqualified, untrained person. I know my belts were fine, but was told to update or remove from the car.

John Shiels

Race belts would see what G load in high speed crashes vs. a street car where speed is limited?

gkmccready

Where's the data?

Racers drove for *decades* without HANS devices. How many crashes resulted in significant injuries that the HANS would have reduced? How many crashes would the HANS not have helped at all? I'm not arguing that you're not safer with a HANS when using a harness, but trying to argue that a harness is less safe than a 3-pt without a HANS doesn't seem right. Again, data please... and not one-off incidents like backing it in to the wall, I want to know that in a significant percentage of crashes I would be better off in a 3-pt rather than a harness without a HANS device.

Bill Dearborn

Actually it is a good question. I attended a presentation by Joe Marko of HMS Motorsports a couple of years ago and got the reasons. Most SFI belts are made of nylon which loses over 50% of its strength when exposed to UV over a 20 month period. Polyester webbing will hold up a lot longer and that is why the Schroth FIA belts are approved for up to 5 years. OEM seat belts are made of a combination of materials that allow them to hold up much longer than that. Joe didn't give a specific time period on OEM belts but I suspect it is like a lot of other things mandated by the Government the time period is no more than 10 years which is the assumed lifetime of a car in the US.

Bill

bobmoore2

Street accidents generally include only one hard crash. Racing accidents often include several hard crashes in quick sequence.

Race harnesses are much better than street seat belt & air bag systems in the second-plus crashes.