Dolfan

OK,

Currently my 04 Z06 was a set of Koni sport adjustables. But this morning doing so maintenance I found my front left is leaking green fluid/oil!

Car is bone stock except for the shocks and run on R-comp tires for SCCA SS class. I've got a 1 1/4 front sway bar on the way that is to be installed as well. Now the 2011 season is about to begin and now I've got to get things right. I guess I'm looking at three choices.

1 - Pull the Koni's and send them off for rebuild. First off I'm not sure how long that will take but I bet at least 30 days with shipping time. I don't think the cost would be too bad and I know folks get them rebuilt and they are fine, if not better than original. Just not sure if the car would be ready for my first event???

2 - Pull of all the Koni's and put a new set of Pfadt sport adjustables in place. This has an advantage that I can get them in a week and have the car ready. I think the other benefit is that the adjustment is much easier than the Koni's. Of course the downside is the $800 investment!

3- Order 2 new front Koni's and send the others our for rebuild as backup. Still that is about $600 for the 2 Koni's.

Can anyone that has driven both of these chime in with comments about the two. I'm not dissatisfied with the Koni's, but it seems like maybe the Pfadt shock might help me out both on timing and adjust ability?

Comments please.

Solofast

Using a Koni service center is a lot quicker than sending them to Koni NA. I had my Koni's revalved at Koni NA last year and it took them forever to get them done. Maybe a rebuild would be faster, but revalving took them a long time... Wasn't cheap either...

I ran free tires that were not as good as best tires and after not winning because of it I finally figured it was better to pay for faster tires... After that I coined the phrase "free uncompetitive tires are a $#itty deal"...

I don't know anybody who is running Pfadts who is winning with them on a National level... Just an observation, but if they were faster everybody would be using them... If you're serious about winning, get a set and test and let us all know if they are faster, but until somebody does that I'd stick with the Koni's

froggy47

I have used both.

Koni is a good shock that would puke out it's front lower rubber bushing periodically.

I think it was engineered by the same guy who did the Vette control arms.

It was hard to adjust on the car & adjuster would get stuck at the ends of it's travel. It can be rebuilt.

Pfadt is a good shock that weighs less than the Koni (I scaled them both) has a nice/easy adjuster that does not get stuck and has a front lower heim joint that works great. I do not believe it can be rebuilt.

Your Koni leak should be a warranty item, isn't it? I thought I recall they are lifetime warranty but may be wrong.

I would buy a used set of 04z stock shocks, throw the fronts on & send the leaker for a warranty repair, maybe send both & have them shock dyno after the repair.

It's always good to have a spare set of shocks around.


I heard Bilsten is coming out with an SA shock.

Dolfan

I'm not sure on the warranty as I purchased these used, so I'm not the original owner so doubt that the warranty will cover me, but I'll check.

I too was thinking I'm sen more top guys on the Koni's or Penske's rather than the Pfadt in Solo.

I still have my original 04 Z06 shocks that I could put on temporarily, but I know there is a performance drop off to that.

froggy47

Some rebuilders may turn them around real fast, if you time it between events, maybe only have to run one event on oem. The leaker may still be ok to run 1 event & then ship they out fast. Look up which vendors on this site are authorized rebuilders.

gkmccready

Call Bruce @ Performance Shock (at Infineon Raceway); he's an authorized KONI rebuild center and when I've been there things have always been flowing through quickly. I've also seen them working weekends to meet demanding schedules of various race teams...

Dolfan

I think the center in KY is my best bet as for shipping that would be real quick better that all the way across the country to CA.

autoxer6

Is it really leaking, or is there just a little seeping out? If it is only a small amount, then I would keep driving on them. Loosing a small amount of oil doesn't hurt performance. The damper is designed so that the seal gets oiled lightly.

The Koni 3013 inverted shock is the common choice since it came out a couple of years ago. It is not easily rebuildable. It is one of the few Koni shocks which has to be cut open. Rebuilding them is expensive.

I would choose Koni 3013's over any damper except a well set up Penske or other high end shock.

talon95

It's my understanding that they are not rebuildable. I had problems with my rear 3013's. Koni NA sent me new replacements very quickly (less than a month total, counting time for me to ship them to Koni NA). If you're not the original owner, then you're hosed on the warranty though.

Dave G.

talon95

Oh, and I think the problem with the Pfadt shocks is they adjust compression and rebound with one adjuster. I would never want that. If I'm wanting more rebound in the rear for example, the last thing I'd want is to add more compression at the same time (making the car looser as I add throttle).

Dave G.

Dolfan

It has leaked enough that I find an area of fluid on the floor under that wheel. At least 2 times I have cleaned it up and then have it re-appear, seem like a bit too much of a leak.

Dolfan

Well looking at options I see now that QA-1 seems to have a product for the C5, anyone used these? Anyone heard much?

I have the QA1 adjustables on my C4 vette, now that car was far from a well prepared AS car but the shocks did make a big difference and the adjustability is nice.

Solofast

The single adjustable QA-1's adjust compression and rebound at the same time and thus don't have any usable adjustment (ie worthless).

The double adjustable QA-1 have usable adjustment, but I haven't seen any damping curves. Without any idea as to what the damping in them looks like, where the knee in the damping curve is and are they linear, digressive or progressive means that buying them is a crapshoot at best.

Unless you have access to a shock dyno and know someone who does you really don't know what you could have or how to set the car up with these shocks. Koni's and Penske's have basic valving that is generally accepted as being right, and if you go far from that it isn't likely that you are going to have something that's going to work well. Even with that, getting a complete set of damping curves for the shocks that you have is the first thing that you need to do to so you can understand what each adjustment does and you at least have a way to guess what you do with the ***** is going to do on the track.

Trying to work with shocks that don't have the proper damping available in the adjustment range is frustrating to say the least. Been there, done that, and even with the help of guys who do vehicle dynamics for a living it wasn't right.

I know quality shocks are expensive, and QA-1's are very reasonably priced, but by the time you pay for a few sets of tires that you would eat up in two or three test sessions that it's going to take to get them dialed in to get them working the best that they are going to work, you are better off paying the big bucks for shocks that you are pretty confident will work well and then spend a test day tuning them and getting them right.

Dolfan

All good points, it really wasn't about saving money as the difference per shock was only about $60. I do like the ease of QA1 adjustment, but your right what good is easy adjustment when you don't know what you are adjusting! I think I'm going to stick with the Koni's! The only thing I don't like is that the 3013 is not rebuildable, that is something I'd to have the option on.

autoxer6

FYI
The internals of the Koni 3013 is the same as a double adjustable. The cost for Koni to convert them is only about $50 more than just a rebuild. All they have to do is add the external adjuster. So, if you are going to stick with the Koni, then I would have them rebuilt (which means Koni has to cut them appart with a saw) and then have them add the adjuster for compression. At least this way you get something for the expensive rebuild.

BTW, I think staying with the Koni is a good choice. They can win nationals!

Dolfan

I'm not sure I get it? I got an email from Koni that said the 3013 is not rebuildable?

This is the quote from the email

Off the shelf 3013’s aren’t rebuildable. They are sealed units

I've already order two replacements for the front, but I wouldn't mind rebuilding these if possible as backups????

froggy47

They may be rebuilt/converted by a shock service company not by Koni NA.

I am not sure I'd go this route, but some have.

4wheels

I'd stick with the Koni (or upgrade it) if I were in the same situation.

autoxer6

Let me try to clairify the term rebuild. That normally means you can take something appart replace some wear parts like seals or bushings and then put it back togther. With this definition, a Koni 3013 is not rebuildable.

Koni NA was willing to take my Koni 3013, cut it appart, destorying the body in the process. Then put the guts back into a new housing.

So I wouldn't call it a typicall rebuild, more a "recycling" of the internal parts.

Through the "recycling" process, it was only $50 more cost to have the 3013 converted to a double adjustable since the piston design already has allowances for compression adjustment. I was not quoted the cost to get everything installed in a new body because I did not ask. I went a different direction. It wont be cheap.

AverageVetteNut

TrueChoice in Ohio I believe rebuilds and services Konis. I heard a few local guys mentioning going thru them to get SA's turned into DA's.