B505

Hey all! So I just wanted to share a quick story and ask a couple questions to those who have been down my path. I've been autoxing/HPDE driving for about 10 years now and I've had my Z06 for almost 1 year and I just recently picked up a 95 miata as my daily/weekend autoxer. I love the miata for its weight and nimbleness but its really lacking in the power dept. I've heard many people say thats the way to go in terms of learning how to be a better driver, and I believe it! There's not enough power in there to fix your mistakes and shave seconds off in the lap =P BUT having said that, jumping back in the Z06 is a different world. Its just soooooooooo much faster its really hard to compare and learn from the two...That along with the 1000lb difference really shakes things up.

Questions:
How have you guys felt with this kind of transition?

How do I get my 08Z06 to tighten up the steering input? It feels a lot more numb than other cars I've raced and I'm trying to figure if it has to do with ultra wide tires.

How do I get more driver feedback from the Z06? The transmission feels great but I feel I dont get enough response from the steering/tire grip dept. I read that katech had a car which magazine editors raved about saying the steering felt a million times better than any vette they've tested but katech said the steering rack remained factory.

And lastly..I'm debating on just racing the miata and learning from my mistakes on that car instead of the Z06 just because of the price of wear and tear components. They're literally half the price in almost every category...any additional thoughts? Others who have had simliar experiences/situations?

Thanks all

VetteDrmr

Well, you can do what I just got on the track.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=390451
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=416002

Still got work to do, but so far so good!

Have a good one,
Mike

hamdog

Change the control arm, shock bushings. Change the steering wheel, shifter an seats. Those all help improve the input and feel.

95jersey

My buddy has a spec miata and here is my take (we have driven eachother's cars a few times).

I don't think they are harder to get good lap times than a Corvette because of power. I find the opposite to be true. Learning how to put down 500hp and massive torque in a heavier car is a skill set second to none. Which is harder, learning to drive a slow car fast, or learning to drive a fast car really fast? The later takes just as much if not MORE skill and much bigger ***** drive fast than a miata.

You now have 2 things that are not present in a miata that make going fast in a Vette much more difficult to learn (putting huge power and torque down coming out of corners without the back end coming out, throttle steering and MASSIVE threshold braking). Sure a Corvette can be driven faster than a Miata, but that is not the point (apples to oranges). Try to put your Corvette up against a top T1 driver and you'll scratch your head as to how he goes so fast. It is way more dangerous and the stakes are higher, which really requires your skill level to be that much more evident.

With the maita, yes you need to keep up momentum, but you don't have to deal with massive torque and throttle steer or threshold braking. Going into a 60mph turn from 155mph and braking at the last possible moment WHILE maintaining momentum is an increadibly challenging skill I did not require to master in the Miata. I did Pocono in the Miata and topped 95mph on the back strait (if that), maybe I broke down to 45mph for the turn. I felt it was a cake walk compared to man handling a 500rwhp torque monster C6Z.

The question is not that a Miata is harder to drive because you have to keep up momentum, but can a Miata driver handle putting down 500hp and going into braking zones at 155mph all while doing heel and toe perfectly. Screw up in the Miata you probably only going 60mph, screw up in a high hp vette and your probably doing 120mph.

Totally different skill sets and handling a heavier higher HP car is just as or more difficult than going fast in a small underpowered car.

I basically found that I came up to speed in the miata within a few sessions and were keeping pace with other miata's. The miata driver could not even get up to 1/3rd my speed in the same amount of time. I was thankful for that, but I could tell it would take him much longer to get up to speed coming from a Miata to a Vette vs the other way around.

travisnd

Sweet build... you should have posted a link over here sooner

sothpaw2

Shock bushings...these are the ones right over the shock that connect it to the tower at the top of the frame? What bushings did you go to?

OKsweetrides

Here's a Miata... you might enjoy what it's capable of...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SINoy...ature=youtu.be

flink

Not quite.

With the powerful car you'll late-apex, and late-apexing is really really easy. If you go in too hot you have plenty of track left to fix things up - just don't accelerate so hard on the way out.

Whereas with the momentum car, you don't late-apex. You only need to widen the steering a tiny bit after the apex, so you're very close to the classical maximum-radius line. Consequently, you have no margin of error at all - if you go in a little bit too hot, you have no space in which to fix things up and you're going to depart the track on the other side.

But yeah, powerful cars are scary and more dangerous. Much of the "skill" there involves defeating your common sense

Short-Throw

Guys,

This is a fallacy. All cars are momentum cars.

You cannot just jump back on the gas in a Corvette and resume like nothing happened after a mistake. Given equal drivers in equal cars, if you mess up a corner you're done. HP will not catch equal HP given one driver errs and one doesn't.

I've been racing a Miata for a short time now in between Corvette stints and although I still need more practice in the 4 banger, it does make you a much better driver when stepping back into the Corvette.

Miata's are only slow on the straights, they are much faster in the corners than most realize.



Racing a Miata will be substantially lighter on your wallet.

You can run a full season on two sets of brake pads. Quarter panels only cost 75 bucks. The car is much lighter so spins and off road excursions overall will not be a violent as a heavier car. The tires are cheaper to replace. With the lower HP, you really learn to focus on maximizing your driving.


Mike

StKnoWhere

That's a MX5 with about $10K if motor upgrade and a driver who knows what to do with it

Short-Throw

..and a Ferrari driver relaxing on his way to the drug store to buy the Sunday paper.

Cloaked323

That's my take well said

B505

Wow thanks for the responses. Very well said with the apples and oranges. I appreciate the input from everyone. They are apples and oranges and you're also spot on with the "fear factor" in the light weight adn slower car my brain keeps telling me I'm invincible, but in the faster heavier car right before a high speed turn my brain keeps saying "are you sure you want to do this" and you're either rewarded with a YES thats exactly what I want or ahh crap, I got scared and slowed down too much.

I'm really happy I got others to tune into this. And yes basically it will take 10k of miata engine work to compete with a factory z06. There are a lot of miatas out here in SOCAL that can do just that.=D Till then, its all about the driver for me, and yes the miata will be the one to practice with in case of off track excursions and maintenance plans. And hopefully I will learn from all my mistakes on teh cheaper car.. see ya at the track

Thanks all.

Joy of 6

While I do enjoy and like my Z on the track, I find a Miata to be a real treat with the lighter steering and weight which gives it a huge fun factor when you pass a Vette in a corner

travisnd

If you're passing a vette in the corner tthen the driver doesn't know how to drive and if you're faster in the corners in your Miata than your Corvette then you're doing something wrong.

People love to think cars like Miatas and Lotuses are faster in the corners than a Corvette or Viper and then the big power cars just romp down the straights. That's just not the case. You ususally see this type of stuff in the novice HPDE groups where a beginner is scared of the power and capabilities of the Corvette vs. the low power Miata where you can just put your foot to the floor everywhere and push harder in the corners becuase you can only go but so fast.

95jersey

My Z06 is WAY faster around a corner than my buddies spec Miata.

varkwso

They are both fun to drive. I bore easily with the slow momentum cars vs the fast momentum cars personally. A Corvette corners faster....

Cloaked323

Again well said I having nothing but HPDE experience I've never seen Joe Miata get anywhere near me in a corner, they don't have enough ponies.

Jason

Bingo.

Short-Throw

It depends on how sharp a corner we are talking about and if it's a decreasing or increasing radius, however I think you'd both be very surprised if you laid data acquisition from both cars over each other.

I was skeptical too until seeing real world data, not SOTP feel or comparing different drivers in different cars.

Mike