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Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track

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Old 05-24-2011, 05:05 PM   #121
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The LS2 is meh... but the LS3 is a nice step up in power. You can get 430 rwhp out of some long-tubes and a tune which is what my old Z06 with a moderate cam made (G5-X2 making 436 rwhp).

It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
Very, very interesting. Didn't realize that (though I did read the reference earlier in this thread to the Grand Sport having the dry sump as being because of the oil deficiency), because seriously how many guys will push their LS3 to the level that White Knight did to his car? Heck, I thought I was abusing my LS3 with my 'hard' track days, but I guess there is a whole other level of 'abuse' with TT/WTW, etc. i.e. real racing, not track days.

Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:16 PM   #122
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So the new GS is essentially an LS3 with a dry sump kit similar to the LS7? If that's the case--what's stopping someone from ordering the parts that come on the GS and having a non-GS with the GS dry sump? From my limited knowledge, the LS3 in the grand sport is no different than the one in the base C6, or is that not the case?
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:19 PM   #123
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Very, very interesting. Didn't realize that (though I did read the reference earlier in this thread to the Grand Sport having the dry sump as being because of the oil deficiency), because seriously how many guys will push their LS3 to the level that White Knight did to his car? Heck, I thought I was abusing my LS3 with my 'hard' track days, but I guess there is a whole other level of 'abuse' with TT/WTW, etc. i.e. real racing, not track days.

Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
Nice video, that thing sounds nasty and that 0-60 is wicked quick. Nice work. How did you like the Halltech?
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:08 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by QUIKAG View Post
Still have love for my '08 Vette, though it's gone now. Check out this 0-120mph vid I did with only mods being intake, headers, exhaust, and good custom tune. She was a screamer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMecChZGLiQ
I watched that a long time ago... you were one of the first guys to get and mod an '08 and I loved the JSB. I was close to pulling the trigger on one, but decided to go a bit nuts modding my old Z06. Ended up selling that and building a track-only car.
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Old 05-24-2011, 07:26 PM   #125
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It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
Actually we went with the ARE dry sump system.

Yes, you could probably go with the stock Grand Sport dry sump, but after all is said and done, you'd probably spend about the same as the ARE system. And from all the data and engineers I've talked to, the ARE system is better.

And the major problem with the LS3 (without a sump) is on left turns. That's where the pressure drops well below the GM recommended psi for the bearings. kaboom.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:41 PM   #126
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Nice video, that thing sounds nasty and that 0-60 is wicked quick. Nice work. How did you like the Halltech?
Halltech is a good system especially with the Hive and cold air scoop.
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Old 05-24-2011, 10:09 PM   #127
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Halltech is a good system especially with the Hive and cold air scoop.
Good to hear, I think I'm going to end up preordering the new halltech that is being released June 1 as the first mod to my car. $460 shipped for the intake and hive is a good combo.
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Old 05-25-2011, 09:04 AM   #128
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A car that is "driven" on the track needs a real dry sump sysytem. The factory Z06 and LS3 systems are great marketing tools and they can be used as a start in building a good system. Easiest way to make either one into a track ready system is call A.R.E. and get the right parts. I think a new tank and improvements to the pan are the key items. Anyway you look at it for less then a new set of wheels you will be able to keep your engine together. If you are willing to work a system will come in less. My highest cost item for my LS2 race car system was the pan. Everything else was bought by shopping around and asking about used parts. I ended up getting everything but the pan used and the tank was a brand new unit that a racer bought but did not fit.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:02 AM   #129
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Seeing that I have over 37000miles (in 14 months) on my H/C/I LS3 spinning 7100rpm's, with about 30 full trackdays, 30+ auto-x events and 2 coast-2-coast trips with no issues I thought I would chime in

Our shop car has been running like a champ and seriously has had zero issues whatsoever. Believe me when I say she has been run HARD. I shift around 7000rpm at the track, and am running on R888's with a full suspension.

Heading to Sebring this weekend, hope I didn't jinx it now haha

/Erik
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:21 AM   #130
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Believe me when I say she has been run HARD. I shift around 7000rpm at the track, and am running on R888's with a full suspension.
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Toyo R888 /= Hoosier R6 let alone A6s

Advanced HPDE /= Racing/TT use
One more time: it's not running it "HARD" and shifting at redline. It's hi-g sustained left hand turns.

For every one that blew up there are probably 100 that didn't. It's the reader's money and choice to take steps to prevent an issue. This reader will take precautions before I run my LS2 "hard" on the track.
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:51 AM   #131
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A C6 lost a motor at VIR last weekend. Looked like the space shuttle go down the front straight.
Pretty car real shame.
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:31 PM   #132
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One more time: it's not running it "HARD" and shifting at redline. It's hi-g sustained left hand turns.

For every one that blew up there are probably 100 that didn't. It's the reader's money and choice to take steps to prevent an issue. This reader will take precautions before I run my LS2 "hard" on the track.
I guess the reason I jumped into this thread is I didn't want people to misperceive the LS2/LS3 as weak. I think you're right that for 99% of people who don't do crazy internal engine mods/tunes with the right tune, the car will hold up as well on the track as pretty much any car on the market besides a few P-cars and maybe the newer Vipers. It's a robust car for 99% of people who will do track days as long as you're smart about it.

For the 1% that truly race the car WTW or TT, then obviously some oiling/cooling improvements are necessary to prevent a shuttle launch on the engine. Otherwise, I think the KISS principle applies for weekend track day guys, don't spend crazy $$$$ on dry sumps, brake coolers, etc.... just put good brake fluid in, add the extra quart, do some track brake pads, maybe some R-comps if you're serious and go out and have some fun.
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Old 05-25-2011, 01:46 PM   #133
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I guess the reason I jumped into this thread is I didn't want people to misperceive the LS2/LS3 as weak. I think you're right that for 99% of people who don't do crazy internal engine mods/tunes with the right tune, the car will hold up as well on the track as pretty much any car on the market besides a few P-cars and maybe the newer Vipers. It's a robust car for 99% of people who will do track days as long as you're smart about it.

For the 1% that truly race the car WTW or TT, then obviously some oiling/cooling improvements are necessary to prevent a shuttle launch on the engine. Otherwise, I think the KISS principle applies for weekend track day guys, don't spend crazy $$$$ on dry sumps, brake coolers, etc.... just put good brake fluid in, add the extra quart, do some track brake pads, maybe some R-comps if you're serious and go out and have some fun.
What would you say to the ~10% who do basic mods (intake, headers/exhaust) who also want to race? Do they fall into the same 99% category or are they flirting with danger?
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:12 PM   #134
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What would you say to the ~10% who do basic mods (intake, headers/exhaust) who also want to race? Do they fall into the same 99% category or are they flirting with danger?
There is a BIG difference between track days and actual racing. The percentage who actually race fall into the 1% category. By racing, you should have all the requisite safety equipment, gutted interior, roll cage, HANS device, built to a spec for the racing class, etc. With that amount of cost involved, it would certainly be prudent to improve the oiling/cooling system as well to handle the sustained high g lateral and longitudinal loads and heat generated.

If by race, you actually meant a weekend track day kind of guy with basic IHE mods, then you fall into the 99% category based on my personal experience. Factory tune (or very good/reputable aftermarket tune), extra quart of oil, no internal engine mods, and you're not running massive race slicks, you will be fine, almost guaranteed.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:40 PM   #135
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What would you say to the ~10% who do basic mods (intake, headers/exhaust) who also want to race? Do they fall into the same 99% category or are they flirting with danger?
In this case it is not so much related to the extra HP those mods will get you as it is to the engine's ability to keep lubricated. There are countless examples here in the forum of LS2/3 cars puking oil into the intake, and (luckily) less examples of them blowing up (like space shuttles). It is more based on grip than speed. Make sense? The oil sloshes away from the pick up and in the heads and stays away, the result? The system is starved for oil and no lubrication of critical components.

I'm not about to say that engine mods won't hurt the motor, but that's not what is causing these failures.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:46 PM   #136
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Last edited by ScaryFast; 05-25-2011 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:59 PM   #137
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Actually we went with the ARE dry sump system.

Yes, you could probably go with the stock Grand Sport dry sump, but after all is said and done, you'd probably spend about the same as the ARE system. And from all the data and engineers I've talked to, the ARE system is better.

And the major problem with the LS3 (without a sump) is on left turns. That's where the pressure drops well below the GM recommended psi for the bearings. kaboom.
What does that ARE system cost, installed?

FWIW--I never had a lick of trouble from my LS6 motor running Kuhmo V700s, shaved, in about 2 years of track days. I always got the impression the LS6 motors were practically bulletproof--no?

FWIW II--It seems Chevy would have been smart to offer a real racing dry sump as an option (scavenge tank plus baffles plus multiple pumps). I've never understood why this would not be a option for this kind of car--GM should charge enough to pay for the addition and put it in the options sheet. Build it and people will pay!

Last edited by quick04Z06; 05-25-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 05-25-2011, 03:07 PM   #138
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Anybody replaced an LS2/3 with an LS6 yet?
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:05 PM   #139
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Anybody replaced an LS2/3 with an LS6 yet?
You offering to swap me? Would help get this car on track faster...
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Old 05-25-2011, 04:13 PM   #140
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You offering to swap me? Would help get this car on track faster...
Couple more years and it's all yours.
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