wtknght1

The ARE system is about $3.5K, but that doesn't include coolers, lines, fittings and installation. If you add all that in, I'm guessing you'll end up around $7-8K or so for the whole thing. It's not a simple process, but the Phoenix guys have it down to a science now.

The LS6 is bulletproof - can't hurt it.

The GM beancounters are the primary reason for the troubles - they forced the engineers to 'skimp' on the oiling process...simple as that. After all the troubles though, GM countered by scrapping the Z51 package and introduced the Grand Sport with the factory dry sump.

JUIC3D

Nice talking to you tonight Chris. Your time is appreciated. Based on what I've learned, I'll be leaving my car alone for now and focusing more on straight-line performance and the occasional romp in the street. Maybe in another 2-3 years, I'll pick up a Grand Sport and learn how to drive fast in the corners. The wife will be upset if I blow the motor in my near-mint C6 so I'll enjoy her as she sits and look forward to the future for a time when I'll be in a position to enjoy a road course.

So what all is needed to go 10s in my daily driver?

I keed, I keed--thanks everyone for all the help advice. CF rocks

Gray Ghost GS

I loved my LS6 based 383 - the engine truly is BULLET PROOF!! Mine lasted me four years and died due to human error, not the engines fault - and I beat the hell out of it on the road courses. It was probably one of the most powerful ones too that also had great daily driver street manners. I went with an LS2 replacement, but if that engine ever gives me a major problem; I would NOT hesitate to go back to the LS6. Mike

wtknght1

No sweat bud. You're probably making a wise choice.

fatbillybob

Hopefully they will design a new motor that does not need the dry sump as a bandaid for design flaws. If you need a DS by design I'm all for it but as an expensive kluge I'll race my LS6 until it dies.

ScaryFast

I checked the link to the article on the LS3 motors posted a few pages back (or maybe it was on one of the other threads). There is a whole paragraph about how GM changed the head oil drain channels from the LS6/2 heads in order to fit the fuel injection system.

They moved them and changed the shape. Supposedly they flowed the same, but this while phenomenon makes me wonder how well it was tested...

Bonjo2

I just ordered an LS376, my first LS motor.

Am I correct to assume that I will need at a minimum the LS-A external scavenge pump kit with an external reservour ($15-1800). And if I can afford it, or not afford another crate motor, a full 4 or 5 pump dry sump system (2300-6500). Damn.

Anyone able to drill out drain holes, or drill and tap the head to accept a pump, like in the rear differential coolers to just draw out and keep the pan full? I've these setups on the old iron blocks.

FYI. :My car will be limted street use (easy over 1G on Azenis) and spend most of it's time track day and autocross with 12" wide slicks.

wtknght1

In short...YES.

The LS3 was designed to handle the completely stock set up with reasonable reliability. But, when you add slicks, etc., the engine will lose pressure, primarily turning left, below the safe point...and kaboom. The engine also suffers from blow-by, oil pooling, and some other issues which causes ungodly high oil temps. The dry sump seems to cure all of these issues.

Most of the guys in T1 are running the ARE 3-stage system. That plus a monster oil cooler or two and you should be fine.

Bonjo2

Thanks. I'll have to start looking at my budget again. Maybe sell a kidney.

jasonberkeley

I've run the Aviaid 3-Stage T1 Dry Sump on my LS3 powered T1 car for three races with no issues.

Very strong oil pressure, and the motor ran great.

crimlwC6

I've talked to several road racers that have put thousands of miles on ls3 motors using slicks in either races or tt with zero problems. YMMV

383

Not much mention of the "batwing" oil pan in this thread anyone have info/experience with this thing?

wtknght1

Yep, Mike McGinley and I ran the first 2 prototype pans developed by the GM engineers we were working with back in mid 08. They kept the engine alive, but didn't solve all the problems. There were still extremely high oil temps, blow-by and the pressures were nowhere near as high as they should have been. Turning left is still the problem with the pan.

My best advice to you or anyone else with an LS3 remains the same - put a dry sump on there. It's the only way to ensure it'll live.

MX621

This past tues at thunderbolt i was following a ls3 w/ toyo r88's and it let go right in front of me, got it on the go pro in car.. guy said it was his 15th track day on the setup... he even made a comment in the morning how he is on the verge with the oem oiling system on the R88's..

wtknght1

Without a sump, it's just a matter of time. Anything over 1.1 or 1.2Gs of lateral force and the bearings will starve - kaboom. That's the reason Chevy no longer offers the Z51...and added the Grand Sport with a factory sump.

sothpaw2

Chris,

Do you know if an LS1 w/C5Z cam and heads would have similar reliability to the LS6? If my LS6 ever goes I'd be more tempted to get an LS1 and make minor changes rather than spend the extra $7k to sump the LS3 at Phoenix. IMHO the engine should handle Nitto R-II /Toyo R888, they are street legal where Hoosier R6 are not and I can see GM not engineering for the R6.

Thanks,

Andy

wtknght1

It should, but most LS1 powered cars (in class GTA for example) run a dry sump. The stock LS1s have oiling issues. I had a few low oil pressure warnings in my old 98 Vette, but luckily survived. It had a stock suspension with racing slicks.

If you have an LS6, I doubt you'll have any issues - they are bulletproof. If it does go, I'd just replace it with another LS6.

The Hoosier R6 and A6 are both DOT legal.

MX621

so a stock ls6 with say a r6 or a6 tire is just fine on the track, 1.1-1.2g's are ok for the stock oiling system on a ls6?

JUIC3D

Chris,
Are the majority of the oiling issues with the LS3 due to the poor oil flow from the new head design and the offset rocker locations?

If so, does swapping to aftermarket heads, say Trickflows, help at all, or is a dry sump still the only way to fix it?

wtknght1

You don't need to do anything to an LS6 for it to survive. You can run whatever tire you want and will have no issues. We routinely saw 1.4-1.7Gs in our LS6 powered T1 Vettes and always had good pressure - even over 7K rpms. You just need a good cooler to keep the temps down...but a sump is not needed.

From what I gather, the LS3 problem(s) are several to include everything you mentioned...and then some. If it was something that could have been solved simply (and cheaply), I'm sure Chevy would have done it. But they chose to put a dry sump on there, so I'm assuming that's the only real answer. As I see it, the LS3 drivers have 2 options...if you really want to drive it hard on a track with racing tires:

1. Put a dry sump on there.

2. Sell it, and buy a Grand Sport that already has a sump.

Otherwise, you are limited to using the stock suspension and street tires. Anything else is simply a band-aid and you are taking your chances. Remember though, when these LS3s go, they go big (rod thru the block and lots of oil on track). So you risk a big wreck and also risk the cars and lives of the other drivers on the track too. Put a sump on there!