Let me ask another way, who's LS3 HASN"T blown up on the track
#101
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Advice noted. So without dumping a lot of cash, what I'm gathering is that it's not exactly feasible to have a triple duty car--daily driver, road course, drag strip.
Instead of going the engine mod route, perhaps it's more advantageous to employ suspension mods and try to put the 420whp to the ground more effectively. Either way, I love this stuff and want to soak up as much information as possible.
As a kid, I always dreamed of being in a financial position to afford a nice car, and I liked to think of all the different things I would want to do and the goals I would want to accomplish. I can't wait to continue on this journey.
Thank you again for all the helpful advice
Instead of going the engine mod route, perhaps it's more advantageous to employ suspension mods and try to put the 420whp to the ground more effectively. Either way, I love this stuff and want to soak up as much information as possible.
As a kid, I always dreamed of being in a financial position to afford a nice car, and I liked to think of all the different things I would want to do and the goals I would want to accomplish. I can't wait to continue on this journey.
Thank you again for all the helpful advice
#103
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Decent set of headers and x pipe should net about 25 or so, so now we're up to ~405whp. Headers+x pipe cost roughly $1800 so for another 45 whp, you're saying it would cost about $8000-12,000? I can understand the need for safety but even a dry sump kit from what I gathered in my quick research is about $2000 or so.
What am I missing?
#104
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If a shop installs a custom dry sump set up, you're looking at $5k - $8k. If you do it yourself, parts are in the $3500 - $4500k range.
John
LS2 M3
#105
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Hm, ok. I was looking at setups from here and even their most expensive setup is $3315 which I would think is overkill for my amateur racing. I'll need to research a lot more of course, but I think that's a good start.
#107
Le Mans Master
Add the extra quart of oil, keep the stock tune (or a VERY good aftermarket tune), and no internal engine mods and you don't need a dry sump IMHO. Others will disagree, but that's my humble opinion.
#108
Safety Car
The average joe running on a stickey street tire or DOT-R will be fine.... he's not generating the cornering loads to run the pickup dry.
Slap on some Hoosiers and put the right nut behind the wheel and it's boom time.
#109
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Is it ok to run the extra quart of oil outside of the track? The vette is my daily driver and it would be tedious to drain/refill after every event. But perhaps, that is the best option.
When you say "VERY good aftermarket tune", what do you mean by that? Presumably, a mail-order tune is what you're referring to as what to avoid.
I'd gladly invest the money in a quality tune from a reputable shop who has a history of solid performance.
I'd ultimately like a good header/x pipe/catback combo, intake, intake manifold, maybe a bigger throttle body, a solid tune, and hopefully that will put me at 415-425whp or so. I don't know of any other mods to put me at 450whp without changing the cam or heads and without involving meth, or any other power adder.
Maybe with the intake/exhaust, the best step would be a suspension setup that can pull triple duty. (road course, dragstrip, daily driver)
When you say "VERY good aftermarket tune", what do you mean by that? Presumably, a mail-order tune is what you're referring to as what to avoid.
I'd gladly invest the money in a quality tune from a reputable shop who has a history of solid performance.
I'd ultimately like a good header/x pipe/catback combo, intake, intake manifold, maybe a bigger throttle body, a solid tune, and hopefully that will put me at 415-425whp or so. I don't know of any other mods to put me at 450whp without changing the cam or heads and without involving meth, or any other power adder.
Maybe with the intake/exhaust, the best step would be a suspension setup that can pull triple duty. (road course, dragstrip, daily driver)
#110
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I'd gladly invest the money in a quality tune from a reputable shop who has a history of solid performance.
I'd ultimately like a good header/x pipe/catback combo, intake, intake manifold, maybe a bigger throttle body, a solid tune, and hopefully that will put me at 415-425whp or so. I don't know of any other mods to put me at 450whp without changing the cam or heads and without involving meth, or any other power adder.
Maybe with the intake/exhaust, the best step would be a suspension setup that can pull triple duty. (road course, dragstrip, daily driver)
I'd ultimately like a good header/x pipe/catback combo, intake, intake manifold, maybe a bigger throttle body, a solid tune, and hopefully that will put me at 415-425whp or so. I don't know of any other mods to put me at 450whp without changing the cam or heads and without involving meth, or any other power adder.
Maybe with the intake/exhaust, the best step would be a suspension setup that can pull triple duty. (road course, dragstrip, daily driver)
#111
Le Mans Master
What tires are you running on and are you running lap times close to the actual racers.
The average joe running on a stickey street tire or DOT-R will be fine.... he's not generating the cornering loads to run the pickup dry.
Slap on some Hoosiers and put the right nut behind the wheel and it's boom time.
The average joe running on a stickey street tire or DOT-R will be fine.... he's not generating the cornering loads to run the pickup dry.
Slap on some Hoosiers and put the right nut behind the wheel and it's boom time.
Call me a skeptic, but people that plow thousands into a dry sump system along with a bunch of other mods and then they still blow up, I would have more reason to suspect the aftermarket parts (including the oiling system) as a contributing cause, if not the primary cause. I've always kept it simple with no internal mods, no aftermarket tunes (or damn good ones in my case with the LS3, custom tunes with datalogging on the track and street by very reputable tuners), and the quart extra. Never had any oil burn, never had any engine issue in 3 years of hard track days with my LS3.
I have a ZR1 now for 4 months and I'm going to my third track weekend this weekend. Keeping this one bone stock (except for Motul fluid) and I expect it to run for several years of track days without significant issue while beating on it.
GM is far from infallable, but these cars are pretty stout if you're smart and keep it relatively stock if you're going to run hard track days.
#112
"AlohaC5" Senior Member
Hey guys, it's been awhile since I've posted.... life gets in the way. I lost my LS6 based 383 (lasted me several years and produced insane power) due to an internal engine issue (long story), not the Accusump. However, I had a lot of problems with my Accusump leaking oil unexpected times through the blow-off valve. It's not suppose to release pressure until it exceeds approx. 125 ft/lbs. We replaced it, same problem - faulty. Virginia Speed was able to modify the blow off valve and now it appears fine. Going to VIR this weekend with the new forged LS2 engine and updated Accusump system. So far no leaks or issues. Fingers crossed!! I had a choice of going LS2 or LS3 with my new engine project and chose the LS2 for the reasons stated in this thread.
#113
Safety Car
Toyo R888 != Hoosier R6 let alone A6s
Advanced HPDE != Racing/TT use
I agree with you that going nutso on a dry sump is overkill for most. The dissapointment is that the LS3 can't take serious use without bandaids whereas the LS6 could.
I've yet to see anyone running TT with a LS2 or LS3 car in my area.... everyone has a C6Z in TTU or a C5 in TTA/TTS.
#114
Le Mans Master
10-4
Toyo R888 != Hoosier R6 let alone A6s
Advanced HPDE != Racing/TT use
I agree with you that going nutso on a dry sump is overkill for most. The dissapointment is that the LS3 can't take serious use without bandaids whereas the LS6 could.
I've yet to see anyone running TT with a LS2 or LS3 car in my area.... everyone has a C6Z in TTU or a C5 in TTA/TTS.
Toyo R888 != Hoosier R6 let alone A6s
Advanced HPDE != Racing/TT use
I agree with you that going nutso on a dry sump is overkill for most. The dissapointment is that the LS3 can't take serious use without bandaids whereas the LS6 could.
I've yet to see anyone running TT with a LS2 or LS3 car in my area.... everyone has a C6Z in TTU or a C5 in TTA/TTS.
I would beat on my car for 20 minutes or so each session for 8 sessions or so each track weekend and never had a major issue over several years. Sustained high-rpm operation in racing conditions with true racing tires is just asking for trouble with a stock engine/oiling configuration.
#115
Safety Car
#116
Safety Car
Exactly... average to above-average HPDE use = LS3 fine
TT/race use = LS3 kaboom
TT/race use = LS6 lasts longer before kaboom
To me it's quite simple... the LS6 faired well enough in T1 that you had to leave it alone.
Then the wonderful LS2/LS3 started blowing up so much that SCCA had to modify the rules to allow a dry sump.
#117
Safety Car
Quite simply, Chris has spelled it out time and time again based on his testing - over about 1.2 g's these cars go kablooey. Hoosiers and a decent suspension get will over 1.5 g's, my data acq often shows 1.8 g's with spikes over 2 g's on banked corners.
Oh, and my LT1 will never blow up, but it also mostly doesn't start.
Oh, and my LT1 will never blow up, but it also mostly doesn't start.
#118
Le Mans Master
Exactly... average to above-average HPDE use = LS3 fine
TT/race use = LS3 kaboom
TT/race use = LS6 lasts longer before kaboom
To me it's quite simple... the LS6 faired well enough in T1 that you had to leave it alone.
Then the wonderful LS2/LS3 started blowing up so much that SCCA had to modify the rules to allow a dry sump.
The 1.2g max though has me a bit surprised as I ran 2 times at Texas Motor Speedway on the roval course and the banking with the R888 tires I was easily pulling over 1.2g left hander for many seconds as I swept through Nascar Turns 3 and 4 redlining 3rd gear and climbing towards redline as I hit the front straight. Not to mention Texas World Speedway that has a few left hand long sweepers on the CCW configuration. Guess I dodged a bullet getting rid of the '08 Vette. Hope the ZR1 holds up at least as well considering how much more it cost over the '08 base Vette.
#119
Safety Car
The LS2 is meh... but the LS3 is a nice step up in power. You can get 430 rwhp out of some long-tubes and a tune which is what my old Z06 with a moderate cam made (G5-X2 making 436 rwhp).
It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
It's just they started to show issues when raced in T1.... Chris (White Knight) was one of the first go move from a C5Z to a LS3 car and had all kinds of issues. If you read this thread you'll see that GM development worked with him on trying to fix the LS3, but ended up slapping the LS7 dry sump on it.
#120
Safety Car
The 1.2g max though has me a bit surprised as I ran 2 times at Texas Motor Speedway on the roval course and the banking with the R888 tires I was easily pulling over 1.2g left hander for many seconds as I swept through Nascar Turns 3 and 4 redlining 3rd gear and climbing towards redline as I hit the front straight.