Shell Rotella T6 5W40 Thoughts?
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Shell Rotella T6 5W40 Thoughts?
I have a HPDE event coming up here in a couple of weeks. Last year I was seeing high oil temps 300+. I know the obvious answer would be to get an oil-cooler set-up, but it's just not in the budget for this one (after new tires and stuff).
I have been through LOTS of threads on here (and other forums) about "the best oil" and obviously there is no right answer.
Some folks have said they use Rotella T6 5W40 with good results and it has a ZDDP content of 1200ppm.
They have it down at wally world for $20 a gallon, so the price is right.
I was hoping the 5W40 would protect a little bit better at that high temp although after doing some reading over at "bobistheoilguy.com" it seems like his opinion is that higher viscosity makes almost no difference at that temp level.
Just looking for some input if any of you guys have run it.
Thanks!
I have been through LOTS of threads on here (and other forums) about "the best oil" and obviously there is no right answer.
Some folks have said they use Rotella T6 5W40 with good results and it has a ZDDP content of 1200ppm.
They have it down at wally world for $20 a gallon, so the price is right.
I was hoping the 5W40 would protect a little bit better at that high temp although after doing some reading over at "bobistheoilguy.com" it seems like his opinion is that higher viscosity makes almost no difference at that temp level.
Just looking for some input if any of you guys have run it.
Thanks!
#2
I have a HPDE event coming up here in a couple of weeks. Last year I was seeing high oil temps 300+. I know the obvious answer would be to get an oil-cooler set-up, but it's just not in the budget for this one (after new tires and stuff).
I have been through LOTS of threads on here (and other forums) about "the best oil" and obviously there is no right answer.
Some folks have said they use Rotella T6 5W40 with good results and it has a ZDDP content of 1200ppm.
They have it down at wally world for $20 a gallon, so the price is right.
I was hoping the 5W40 would protect a little bit better at that high temp although after doing some reading over at "bobistheoilguy.com" it seems like his opinion is that higher viscosity makes almost no difference at that temp level.
Just looking for some input if any of you guys have run it.
Thanks!
I have been through LOTS of threads on here (and other forums) about "the best oil" and obviously there is no right answer.
Some folks have said they use Rotella T6 5W40 with good results and it has a ZDDP content of 1200ppm.
They have it down at wally world for $20 a gallon, so the price is right.
I was hoping the 5W40 would protect a little bit better at that high temp although after doing some reading over at "bobistheoilguy.com" it seems like his opinion is that higher viscosity makes almost no difference at that temp level.
Just looking for some input if any of you guys have run it.
Thanks!
#4
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 8,871
Received 1,754 Likes
on
941 Posts
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
For a street car I would recommed staying with a 30W oil. Amsoil just released a new product line called Z-Rod. It contains high levels of Zinc (about 1500 ppm) and Phosphorus (about 1400 ppm), but also contains the detergents required for street use.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx?zo=1934716
A 40W oil may actually cause more friction in the engine which will increase operating temps due to the tight bearing clearances in modern engines. Just something to think about when selecting oil.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrt.aspx?zo=1934716
A 40W oil may actually cause more friction in the engine which will increase operating temps due to the tight bearing clearances in modern engines. Just something to think about when selecting oil.
#6
Safety Car
40w is going to create friction and heat. You don't need 40w and your car will run cooler with 30w.
Richard Newton
Vintage Motorsports Magazine
Richard Newton
Vintage Motorsports Magazine
#7
Premium Supporting Vendor
Diesel oils have a lot of detergents and dispersants that you don't need in an automotive oil, and don't particularly want in a track day oil. Assuming your car is dual use street/track and you do need some detergents and dispersants in your oil (as opposed to the about none in the racing oil I use), I'd consider these two depending on your viscosity decision:
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc and phosphorus high, but don't have exact numbers yet)
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 (Product Code AMOQT)
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
For any interested in trying either of these, I'm happy to get them for forum members at dealer wholesale, about 25% below retail via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc and phosphorus high, but don't have exact numbers yet)
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 (Product Code AMOQT)
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
For any interested in trying either of these, I'm happy to get them for forum members at dealer wholesale, about 25% below retail via the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program. Drop me a PM if interested.
__________________
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog
C66 Racing #66 NASA ST2, SCCA T2
AMSOIL Dealer (Forum Vendor)
AMSOIL Ordering Information (Retail sales using reference #1206638 benefit the forum.)
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (Members buy at Wholesale - a savings of about 25%)
AMSOIL Catalog
#8
Melting Slicks
TEMP F 200 -- 220 -- 240 -- 260 -- 280 - 300
(vis
cSt)
10W-30 11.7 - 9.3 --- 7.6 -- 6.3 -- 5.1 - 4.5
15W-40 17.6 - 13.9 - 11.2 - 9.2 -- 7.3 -- 6.2
20W-50 21.5 - 16.6 - 13.1 - 10.5 - 8.3 - 7.0
Last edited by Sidney004; 05-14-2011 at 01:30 PM.
#10
Racer
Thread Starter
Its temperature dependent, at low oil temperatures, you are absolutely correct, but at 300F it is not significant:
TEMP F 200 -- 220 -- 240 -- 260 -- 280 - 300
(vis
cSt)
10W-30 11.7 - 9.3 --- 7.6 -- 6.3 -- 5.1 - 4.5
15W-40 17.6 - 13.9 - 11.2 - 9.2 -- 7.3 -- 6.2
20W-50 21.5 - 16.6 - 13.1 - 10.5 - 8.3 - 7.0
TEMP F 200 -- 220 -- 240 -- 260 -- 280 - 300
(vis
cSt)
10W-30 11.7 - 9.3 --- 7.6 -- 6.3 -- 5.1 - 4.5
15W-40 17.6 - 13.9 - 11.2 - 9.2 -- 7.3 -- 6.2
20W-50 21.5 - 16.6 - 13.1 - 10.5 - 8.3 - 7.0
I realize that a higher viscosity oil (40vs30 weight) will cause higher temps, but I was under the impression that the 40 weight would protect better at those higher temps.
When I was running the Mobile1 5w30 last year my oil pressure seemed to be too low. I don't know if it was "really" too low, or just lower than normal.
I read on another forum that having high pressure wasn't important, it was FLOW that was the critical factor which also make sense. I'm just very concerned that 310+ degrees is too hot (for a 30 weight) and I'm seeing like 10psi (ish) at idle when it gets that hot. I don't remember what kind of PSI I was seeing at high RPM but I remember thinking its seemed too low.
I know oil has been discussed to death here, but I was hoping someone could help me out: 5w30 or 5w40? I like the Rotella because it has high zddp (zinc, phosphorus) content, which I hear is the critical friction reducer. I haven't found another oil in the same price range that has that high zddp content.
I think the Amsoil sounds pretty good but to be completely honest, I'm pushing my budget as it is and I can't afford 10qts of that, and if the Rotella does just as good of a job...
Will the 40 weight make things worse or better? Should I just run a 5W30 and get some ZDDP addative? Just run a 5W30 and shut-up and quit worrying?
Last edited by sydneyACE; 05-14-2011 at 06:38 PM.
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 7,251
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
40w is going to create friction and heat. You don't need 40w and your car will run cooler with 30w.
Richard Newton
Vintage Motorsports Magazine
Richard Newton
Vintage Motorsports Magazine
your not going fast enough
Rotella is used by a lot of race car drivers. it is very good stuff !
very big bang for the buck
#14
Premium Supporting Vendor
One thing to watch should you choose to go with the Rotella is its shear stability, which is pretty poor compared to other diesel oils on the market. In the below link, an AMSOIL brochure for their CJ-4 Diesel 5w40, the graph on the second page shows that the Rotella starts with a higher viscosity than Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, and after the shear test, has the lowest. You should be able to see this as a loss of oil pressure as the oil ages and use that drop as a guide as to how often to change it.
Diesel Oil Shear Stability
Oil is an area I will not look to save money. Having lost an LS6 my first season (2003) due to seized bearings on #3,4 piston rods, and having to pay the $7k or so total bill to buy the new engine and install it, a few more dollars on the right oil is well worth it in my mind.
Last edited by C66 Racing; 05-15-2011 at 10:08 AM.
#15
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Northville Michigan
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 0
Received 102 Likes
on
56 Posts
Flow is important at removing heat, but fluid film strength is more important at protecting your bearings. At low oil pressure, your film strength will be lower. When your fluid film is gone, then ZDDP plays a critical factor. Compared to an API SN off the shelf oil, the Shell 5w40 will be better in both those areas. Compared to other options more specifically designed for this type of application, it will be worse.
One thing to watch should you choose to go with the Rotella is its shear stability, which is pretty poor compared to other diesel oils on the market. In the below link, an AMSOIL brochure for their CJ-4 Diesel 5w40, the graph on the second page shows that the Rotella starts with a higher viscosity than Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, and after the shear test, has the lowest. You should be able to see this as a loss of oil pressure as the oil ages and use that drop as a guide as to how often to change it.
Diesel Oil Shear Stability
Oil is an area I will not look to save money. Having lost an LS6 my first season (2003) due to seized bearings on #3,4 piston rods, and having to pay the $7k or so total bill to buy the new engine and install it, a few more dollars on the right oil is well worth it in my mind.
One thing to watch should you choose to go with the Rotella is its shear stability, which is pretty poor compared to other diesel oils on the market. In the below link, an AMSOIL brochure for their CJ-4 Diesel 5w40, the graph on the second page shows that the Rotella starts with a higher viscosity than Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, and after the shear test, has the lowest. You should be able to see this as a loss of oil pressure as the oil ages and use that drop as a guide as to how often to change it.
Diesel Oil Shear Stability
Oil is an area I will not look to save money. Having lost an LS6 my first season (2003) due to seized bearings on #3,4 piston rods, and having to pay the $7k or so total bill to buy the new engine and install it, a few more dollars on the right oil is well worth it in my mind.
I agree with Sub Driver. Oil is something I never skimp on.
When I learned and understood the defiencies of the LS oiling system, I did everything I could to improve their system. Look at what happens to the Gen III and Gen IV oil pump performance at rpms over 6,200:
Look at the viscosity of any 30 weight oil at elevated temperatures versus a premium Group IV or Group V synthetic oil.
#17
Melting Slicks
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-calculator/
#18
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks again for all the input guys!
I'll see how much $ I have left over after buying rotors, then go with what I can get.
I think I'll just bring my tent to the track, that will save all kinds of $ on a hotel hehehehe!
The event is this weekend, so I'll let you guys know how it goes.
I'll see how much $ I have left over after buying rotors, then go with what I can get.
I think I'll just bring my tent to the track, that will save all kinds of $ on a hotel hehehehe!
The event is this weekend, so I'll let you guys know how it goes.
#19
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Northville Michigan
Posts: 2,458
Likes: 0
Received 102 Likes
on
56 Posts
I don't want to put words in his mouth but what I think he was trying to say was that a premium Group IV or Group V synthetic oil contains less VI improver and is less subject to viscosity breakdown after being used at elevated temps and high shear conditions. Assuming it has not suffered viscosity breakdown all 30 weight oils whether Group II,III,III+,IV or V will have the basically same Viscosity v. Temp curve within the SAE engine oil grade range.
It is true that if you are checking the Viscosity Index of various 5W40 weight oils in a laboratory, they all will be similar. BUT, when these same oils, whether they are Group II, Group III, Group IV, or Group V, will show different V.I. results when run in a race engine at elevated temperatures and high loads. The Group II and III base stock oils will show a reduced Viscosity Index due to the fact that their V.I. Improvers -- Polymeric Thickeners -- have been broken down, sheared -- in high stress areas of the engine.
Your 5W40 oil may be a 5W25 with much lower film strength and thickness at the end of the race. This is because the Group II mineral oils and most Group III - *Rotella T6 5W40 - oils require a significant amount of these Polymeric Thickeners in order to achieve a 5W40 rating. It is these Polymeric Thickeners that are broken down-sheared in high stress areas of your race engine.
The Group IV Poly-Alpha-Olefin synthetic oils and especially the Group V Polyol-Ester synthetic oils - AMSOIL, Red Line, Delvac-1, and Motul 5100 require very few Polymeric Thickeners and they do not lose significant viscosity, film strength or film thickness during high load - high temperature usage.
* - Correction made - Group III+ base stocks are made from liquefied natural gas, called GTL (Gast-to-Liquid) base oils. These GTL base oils have natural V.I.s of 140 or more, meaning for most applications they won't require any Viscosity Index Improver package at all.
Last edited by Pumba; 05-16-2011 at 08:26 PM.
#20
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Goose Creek SC
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You must not be familiar with the Group-III+ XHVI base oil Shell now uses in T6. Plus there is no Group-II in T6. About the only relationship their XHVI oil has to lower groups is that it once was crude. It is processed and treated so thoroughly that the finished product really should be called a synthetic and will rival PAO's and Esters in performance.