Redghost

Both my Son and I would like to get into a little "road racing". For myself, I'd like to put in some track time "against the clock" and "just for fun". My Son would like to go farther and get "wheel to wheel". Neither one of us has any experience on a road course and would like to learn, but learn the "right way".

I have a stock C4 Corvette and he has a 07 BMW M3. He also has a older 325i that we'd like to set up "just for race".

My question is,,, is NASA, HPDE a good way to start and learn "the right way". We would be using, mostly, Willow Springs and Buttonwillow raceways. We live in the Antelope Valley, Ca, area. We also have to stay within a tight budget.

Any help and info will be great.

Aardwolf

NASA has been great!

At my first track event I faded the brakes away. I recommend some track brake pads on the front, and high temp fluid. Carbotech is good! Also flush out the power steering and put in something like Redline synthetic. My PS was groaning badly also at my first event.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

It is a good way to slowly get into the sport, and make sure you want to invest the time and $$ later on.

Redghost

Thanks for the info. This is the way we will go.



Anymore tips?

TheKomoman

I'd recommend starting with a driving school. If you start that way you don't have to un-learn bad habits you've developed at HDPE's by the time you get there.

I started by going to the 3 day school at Spring Mountain in Pahrump Nevada (45 minutes from Vegas). You get an excellent foundation and being able to heel-toe by the time you leave there gives you a big leg up on being safe as you start to learn how to go faster. The schools ain't cheap, but I think they're money well spent.

torque*is*cheap

For HPDEs, I'd go with a nice grippy street tire to get the most out of the experience. Bridgestone RE-11, Hankook Ventus R-S3, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, Yokohama Advan AD-08, anything with a 140-180 treadwear number.

Of course, if you're on a budget, you'll want to burn off the stock tires first. If you get to the point where you have separate wheels/tires for track days, you'll want r-compound tires (40-60 treadwear) but the ones I mentioned will work well for daily-driving duty as well.

R-comps are quite addicting, but modern sticky street tires offer a surprising amount of grip, and are probably better for learning car control, as they slide a bit more.

Bill Dearborn

Based on your car selection I would suggest joining the nearest chapter of the BMW CCA. Which probably is the Los Angeles Chapter. You will find plenty of help in setting up your car, plenty of driving schools run by various chapters around the US, and once you get sufficient experience you can start club racing. Check out their web site: http://bmwcca.org/

LA Chapter Web Site: http://www.bmwclubla.org/

It looks like that Chapter has a two school at Button Willow on 7/2 and 7/3.

They have a school at AutoClub on June 10th but it is probably too late to get into that one. Here is what their web site has to say about it:

Friday, June 10: Driving School - Auto Club Speedway Our premiere event at the L.A. Chapter “Home Track” is undergoing some changes! This year in order to make the track more affordable in the face of this slow recovering economy, we're offering Auto Club Speedway as a one day only event for as little as $320 (including lunch)!

Burn a sick day, start your weekend off right by spending it with us on the track!

Our driving school program is structured for beginners through advanced. Each level is tailored to teach you what you need to move to the next level.

If you’re not familiar with the BMW CCA's High Performance Driving School Program, it’s been often described as “the most fun you can have with your clothes on.”

Learn advanced driving techniques beyond what you can learn on the street or through most driver’s training programs. These techniques will make you a safer AND better driver.

Have the time of your life while mastering skills that can help you save money on tires, brakes and gas, as well as keeping you and your loved ones safe.

So come drive at the world famous Auto Club Speedway with us!

I don't own a BMW but I have been a long time member of my local BMW CCA Chapter. It has over 1000 members and a bunch of them are hard core gear heads. The club's monthly magazine is probably one of the best automotive magazine's currently being published.

Unlike Corvette Clubs and most Corvette owners the BMW Club is focused toward the gear head and they aren't posers who own a performance car and then don't do anything with it. I have instructed at their HPDEs in 3 Series, M3s and M5s. Even saw a new 7 Series being autocrossed a couple of years ago. Totally different mind set than the majority of Corvette owners.

Bill

ZoomFreakinZoom

NASA and BMWCCA are a great place to start. If you want to learn real "racing" techniques, and accelerate your learning curve, the best driving school out there is the Jim Russell Racing School. It's expensive though, and if you don't have a baseline to start from I would reccomend either Bondurant or the one at Spring Mountain.

Jim Russell
http://www.jimrussellusa.com/
Bondurant
http://www.bondurant.com/

Spring Mountain Motorsports
http://www.springmountainmotorsports.com/

CHJ In Virginia

Run several HPDE events with either NASA or the BMW club to make sure that this is something you really want to do. they both have high levels of instruction for beginners. Run with the car in STOCK condition, check tires, fluids, brake pads, etc. before you go. It will be at least several events before you can even begin to use the cars capabilities in STOCK form. The groups always have a detailed check list of what you should check on their websites. Don't even think about doing one of the schools mentioned previously until you get some seat time, they are VERY expensive in comparison - several K for class, plus transportation, plus lodging and meals, etc. Seat Time - Seat Time - Seat Time -----

clubracer6

PM sent - one of my good friends runs a BMW and is involved with NASA and BMWCCA. Have fun!

racerbob4

Absolutely go to a good school, maybe the MidOhio school, and get grounded in the basics. I suggest you do this first before you even do track day events. There is so much a school can teach you and it will save you years of time learning the ropes. It's money well spent.

John Shiels

decide what tight budget is because there is nothing cheap about this and WW is even more. Most here figure a minimum of a grand a day for hard HPDE.

Jason

Buy a book called "Go Ahead Take the Wheel". Great info in there.

drivinhard

we all said that

Greywolfe

Yeah, lots and lots of money. I'm a mechanical engineer and I can barely afford to do HPDEs.

W2W I will have to start robbing banks or find me a sugar momma, lol.

rithsleeper

In the exact same boat as you and my buddy and I are continuously researching and we have a pretty good line of attack.

I don't know if anyone has said it yet but even before a HPDE do an Autocross. It's like 20 bucks and it may look slow but when you do it it will max out your driving ability quickly and give you a safe environment to learn your car. It is so fun after my first event, every dream the night after was me driving the course (nothing like in a fancy porsche or had rockets, just re-living the event, thats how amazing it was).

Then when you get to the HPDE you can be a little more gutsy or not over do it and end up damaging something. Also you want to be able to move past your first level of HPDE so you can drive without an instructor, cause riding with your friend is just as good as driving.

If you do 3-4 autocrosses and research rules and junk, you will prob get to level 2 your first event. Saves money.

vette6aut0x

$$ $ $$$$ $$$ $$$ $$$$ $$ $$$ $ $$$$.

Team Lazy

I doubt you'll care to hear it, but if you're serious about getting into it with a dedicated car, and you're on a tight budget, then none of your cars are the best solution.

BUY A CAR. As in an already prepared car, that somebody else has already lost 50 - 75% of the value on. It will save you HUGE money and HUGE time. It may not sound true, but I promise you can NOT build a car for anywhere NEAR what a finished car sells for. Or inversely, when you have $20,000 into your car, expect it to be worth about $7000. See what I mean? $10,000 buys one heck of alot of race car.

With what you have, I'd suggest you simply find an open track day at one of the local tracks, and get out and do it with what you have. Ask an experienced guy to let you ride shotgun and show you the line. Watch what the experienced guys do, how they prep, what spares they bring. With fresh brake fluid, all 3 of those cars will give you all the reliable fun you need for a day on track.

Here's the BEST tip I ever received:

If you can't follow the line at 50%, you sure can't do it at 100%.

Start slow, work up the speed. But when you can't hit the proper spots, back off a bit.

PAULY G

For your son, don't bother with an E90 M3 to start, its expensive and heavy. Set up the 325, call Will Turner at Turner Motorsports and get an off the shelf suspension package. He will tell you about weak spots on the car (like sub frame bushings, fuel pumps, etc). Depending on the year of your car, I have a set of older 17 inch Forgeline wheels with Kumho V700's sitting downstairs I could sell you (off of E36 M3). PM if you want. Do some HPDE's, and maybe BMW CCA can give your son a good class to start club racing, but I wouldn't look to that in the 1st season. Oh, and get a credit card with a decent limit. sorry.

longdaddy

autocross, car control school or an entry-level course from a well established racing school. rinse and repeat until you have confidence in reading what the car tells you. then do whatever you like.

while you will normally find plenty of offers for cheap HPDE "novice instruction", you want to have at least some skill and experience before rolling a dice that could get you some very bad and dangerous "budget coaching". I spent yearts unlearning some of that crap and many others i meet still suffer from it.

don't invest into a car build/purchase until you yourself know which way you want to go and, hopefully, had a chance to try a few different cars yourself. especially at low-risk events like autocross, some will be happy to let you drive their cars. people here will have you buying caged up corvettes with tens of thousands in wheels, brakes and suspension, when you may find that you like open wheel formula type cars or whatever else