B505

Hey everyone, I'm flying out to Florida tonight to buy a race car over the weekend. I wanted to know if anyone has done something like this. I'm pretty sure that this car does not have a Vin or Insurance so I'm wondering whats the safest way to handle the transaction. If I go out there and like the car my intention is to have it shipped back.

Would you pay 50% on site and 50% upon pickup from teh freight service? How do you think would be the safest and most fair way on both sides of the operation? I'll be heading to the bank today to pickup some cashiers checks and need to know how much I should make it out for? The full amount or break it up somehow....opinions greatly appreciated.

Thanks all

Fabian

CHJ In Virginia

If there is no VIN or title, you will need to work on a Bill Of Sale. Be sure to get all the pertinent documentation from the seller, write it down - 2 copies - and both parties sign it. Get positive ID from the seller - xerox of drivers license is best.
Almost 100% certain that the seller is going to want all their money before you leave with the car. Do you have a trailer or some way to remove the car ? I would not depend on the seller to arrange transportation.
Thoroughly look over the car and test drive if possible. Make sure that everything is as advertised before you part with the cash. As with all transactions of this sort - you will get a 30-30 guarantee once the cash has transferred. IE: 30 feet out the driveway or 30 seconds which ever comes first.

Webz

What's ya buyin???

I purchased a tube frame race car (no VIN) this year from out of state. Bill of sale, frame and motor s/n plus log books. And buyer beware, researching the car and particularly the seller. So far I've had good luck with the car and support from the previous owner.

Have fun and good luck!

Painrace

If it is a race car it should have a log book and a number stamped on it where the roll bar thickness was measured.

Once you pay, it is yours.

The same deal works when someone hires you to drive their race car. I have destroyed a few in my time and I still get my fee for driving and the owner gets a pile of junk. If you don't know race cars take someone with you or get someone to meet you there that does.

Good luck!

Jim

sperkins

One can only dream...

parkerracing

One way plane ticket and rental car (preferably Enterprise, they go get the car wherever you leave it). If you like what you see, drop the rental car off at U-haul and come with the truck and trailer. A lot of stuff can happen before you take posession. /:\

0RAAMaudio

Maybe a little late but watch your ****!

I shopped diligently for weeks on end, found what seemed to be the very best car I could find for any sort of reasonable price, many new mods on it, etc.....

I flew to their location, checked it out on a lift, supposed to of had a title, watched it race, etc......I was told I would get the SCCA and NASA log books, from what should of been a very honorable couple.

( I edited part of this as plan to race in other areas around the country, really just HPDE but TT as well, there is always some sort of "good ol boy" network so I do not want to get black listed, everybody has friends.....why I never went public on this)

I had it delivered, took it to the last open track day of the season, could barely keep it straight, later found that was mostly a horribly setup suspension("new Motons" that had to be repaired after I sold them, I did not know they had any issues) and could not drive it without hitting my head on the cage, hard.

I borrowed $20k of the money as had plans to take it the rest of the way from T1 to ST2 and over the winter which would require dumping a bunch of cash into it, which I did, way to much.

Once I opened it up, pulled the dash, I found kinks in the A pillar bars, less than full perimeter welding(what you could see was very well done) and digging deeper I found the frame had been sectioned...

I never got the title and my CU threw a fit so I had to pay the $20k off in months instead of 2 years, never got the log books, cage had to be ripped out (how in the hell SCCA and NASA let it race is beyond me, it was that bad) and never got one thing from the sellers in compensation for a POC car that looked dang fine until I looked to deep.

I have to say this, the sellers are not race car builders, they bought it, spent a bunch on it, did not like it and sold it. They did not know about the serious issues it had except hitting their head on the cage, handled like sheat, etc.....but still not completely forthcoming either. (when I asked why the seat cushion was not in the car he said he liked the feel better without one and he was shorter than I am which is 5'8", mostly he did not like hitting his head either.

I really wanted this car, I believed the owners of a ______ area region would be truthful, either they or the their CU lost or lied about the title and made no offer, even when asked, to help compensate for the hugely critical issues I discovered.

I doubt I ever buy another race car again, I had to build a new cage, after spending a ton of time and money fixing the frame, eventually I was so frustrated it is sitting in storage in pieces, probably never see a track again.

$34k to buy it, then much more into fixing crap, flushed down the toilet...........

All this and I have been building cars at one level or another for 43 years, I thought I was smart enough to buy a used race car, I guess not

Rick

cebars

Sorry for the bad experience.

Tried to pay for a car with bank drafts / cashier's cheques from a very financially stable bank. The owner would not accept the bank drafts as his credit union would not accept them from him. There has been alot of counterfeiting of bank drafts going on.

I paid by wire transfer which was sent from my bank to the vendor's credit union which held the title because the car had a lien on it. When wire transfer arrived at credit union, the credit union signed over the title to me and I took possession of the car not relying on the owner for anything more...certainly not shipping.

There are many threads on how to pay on other parts of this forum. Try For Sale section.

0RAAMaudio

It really sucked what I went through and it is quite embarrassing to post about it but if it helps at least one of our fellow racers or none racers keep from going what I went through then worth posting about.

I edited my post a bit, left out any leads as to who might of sold me the car. I am certain they did not know of the frame and cage issues as totally hidden. I could see no damage even on a lift as the few areas that could be seen looked perfectly fine, covered up to look like no work had been done on the frame.

The cage issues hidden by the dash, etc....

Somebody greased some palms on the initial build, called in a favor, etc to get that cage passed and the jackass that built it had his name written on it like all proud. I should of taken pics of the issues and his signature and posted them all over the internet.

It was a T1 SCCA car for quite some time, wrecked bad enough to need a new front clip,
probably in the log books, why I never got them though promised I would. Title was "lost" by their credit union, or so the story goes....which I actually believe.

Basically they bought a T1 car, started converting it to ST2, found it was a pile of crap so fostered it off on somebody else in a bit less than honorable transaction and then only "helped" by "trying" to find the title and never sent the log books.

Ok, venting still, BE CAREFUL who you deal with, DAMN CAREFUL, I knew this, I thought I was, I got snookered anyway.

Rick

B505

Thanks for all the replies. I'm currently in Florida. Just saw the car yesterday and spent a good 8 hrs in the owners garage talking about every little and last detail. He was a very nice and knowledgable guy who wanted to see the car go to a good home. He was a bit of a salesman but he's being honest with all the "extras " he tried to sell me along with the car. He cut me a deal on a Hans and some aero parts and brake shims. All in all I have good faith in the sale and in the transaction. I hope I don't run into any issues as I will finish wiring the rest of the money tomorrow once I return to Cali and truck will come by his house on tuesday for delivery. I have a bill of sale, identification, and have spent half the day at his house looking at all his photos and trophies of his prized possession. He still has that look in his eye that he doesn't want to let it go. But has to see it off. I hope everything goes well and I'll be keeping this thread updated. Thanks all for the posts!

0RAAMaudio

Seems like you are doing just fine on this deal, I am happy for you, really

I know there are some very fine cars sold by very honorable racers, I had one of the less than great situations but I have actually have looked at other used race cars since. I am building one from scratch now and have since found two incredibly well built cars I would of probably bought one of but none I was interested in came along at the right time.

I hope you are totally satisfied and put that car to good use

Sincerely
Rick

Painrace

I was asked to drive a car at North Wilksboro back in the 70's. I showed up and the car really looked trick and had a neat paint job. I was hired because others could not get the car to qualify or run well. The car qualified "OK" (6th) but it just did not fell solid. As the crew was getting the car ready for the race I told my crew chief from another series that had gone with me and he noticed some of the fastners were not hard enough. We started looking and we found incomplete welds, grade 3 bolts, several of the caliper bolts were lose, the steering shaft had a nail in it bent, the submarine belt was bolted to the aluminum botton tray, the seat fastners were not tight so we quit looking and went home. We also did not get paid so we were out air fair and costs.

Buying a used race car is a big deal and most get stuck.

You should never drive an unsafe car!

Jim

OCCOMSRAZOR

Were I ever to buy another race car, I would definately have my builder/crew chief with me. I don't have enough technical knowledge to be able to look at a race car and determine how well it has been built and maintained.

I'm just smart enough to know how dumb I am.

Good Luck!

0RAAMaudio

In my case I should of been smart enough, had the car on a lift, asked a ton of questions, etc....

1) sectioned frame, only the very bottom of the rails were visible and done well enough I could not tell it had been touched. I would never have known if I had not decided to build a steel firewall and remove the parts needed to do so. That is not something you would ever find on an inspection but sure as hell should of been in the log books, which I was never sent. (they said the logs were at their other home on the other side of the state and would send them asap) I did not think the sellers knew it either but again, never sent the log books so who knows.....if I mentioned their names it would cause a bit of a stir I am sure but I just hoped they would come forth with at least some compensation for all the time and money it cost me to fix it right. I still have the chassis, fully fortified now, I am not concerned with it now.

2) Cage issues.
A) Unless they had pulled the dash out it would never of been known how improperly built it was. I am sure they had not done that in the short time they had the car.
B) Super low A pillar bar, banging heads on it, that was obvious and a serious overlook on my part but they knew it, part of why they sold it I am quite sure.

Unless the car was majorly torn down, cut up, etc....only the low pillar bar would ever of been seen by anybody, including a crew chief, etc....very dubious work had been done, illegal cage allowed to race in two sanctioning bodies, etc....

DIG F'ING DEEP if you buy a used race car, get the logs in hand before you buy, do not trust anybody as they might not even know the whole story if the car was bought used by them especially.

I am building everything myself, cages as well, not work I like to do because of the exposure to things I am sensitive to and all the injuries I have had, it is murder on my back, shoulders, etc, I am disabled enough to collect disability but I support myself well enough I do not need it. I just want to make dang sure it is done right so I read ever rule book, talk to race teams, check out similar cars at events, etc....and double check my ideas with inspectors, real race shops, etc....before I begin and during the process.

In the end it costs far more that paying to have it done but I know I never have to worry about it. (I weld quite well enough but I bring in an incredibly good welder to do all the critical stuff, just one more layer of insurance)

I have better things to do than build a cage but the last three I dealt with, drove me to it.

Sincerely
Rick

froggy47

Thanks for all these informative posts guys, i know maybe 5 or 6 guys that have bought used race cars & really none of them was all that satisified when it was said & done.

I think if you personally know the car & the seller then you will come out ok, other than that, there is a lot of risk to be borne.

sothpaw2

Sounds like it would have helped if you had really known their reason for selling. Very conservative and eliminates a lot of prospects, but maybe for something like a race car we should only buy from who ever owned it when the cage went in. For a street car, I really like buying from a 1 owner private sale.

0RAAMaudio

Reason I was told, they raced Vettes for a number of years, then a Porsche Cup but totaled it, bought this Vette, raced it a bit but just wanted to get back into a Porsche............

I went and watched it race, ran really well at first then started dropping back, said the rear tires were going away...which was true, it was towed out so far out it ate up the inside tread but silly me, I did not look at the tires.

When I got the car I had one day to modify my Featherlite toyhauler so it would fit and get to the last track day of the year, November in Utah. I just took it as it was to get in a little seat time and it handled horribly, I could not roll on the throttle until going absolutely straight or it would kick the rear out and had to catch it, which I am pretty good at. Tow out will certainly do it, who ever set the car up did a horrible job.

At the time I bought this in 07 it was not easy to find a really good C5 race car, this one had $18k worth of new parts and I paid $34k. In some ways it was still a good deal, if not for the cage and frame, it was a very good deal at the time.

I had a budget of $50k but went nuts after I got started on it, found all the issues, tore it completely apart, had a C6 WC body made for it, etc...at $80k and just a used LS6 for power, I knew it was going to become at least a $120k car. I ran an indoor kart series the next winter and was in the back of the pack even on the better karts so I knew I was in way over my head as a driver. I had local kid that won the Red Bull kart shootout I was going to have drive it.

So, I would be the builder, owner, crew chief, only crew member most likely and fund the whole thing and then have somebody else drive it, I woke up one morning and pulled the plug on it and started parting it out.

I sold many parts for a decent amount, used or traded a few for my C6 mods, how much money I actually lost, who knows, just not a wise time in my life I admit. I was making 6 times more money than I ever had and just did not do well with it, costly but well learned lesson to say the least.