Convertible on track?
11-19-2011, 01:18 PM
#1
Racer
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Convertible on track?
I have begun to go on track with my C5. Here in france, some organizations will not accept a convertible car on the track, even with the roof on.
I don't want to sell my car because I have invested quiet a bit (engine, clutch, suspensions, ...) on it and I like the top down rides too.
What solutions can you think of, that would not make my car difficult to get in and out?
Aftermarket hardtop are quiet expensive, especially because of transport cost.
Thanks.
I don't want to sell my car because I have invested quiet a bit (engine, clutch, suspensions, ...) on it and I like the top down rides too.
What solutions can you think of, that would not make my car difficult to get in and out?
Aftermarket hardtop are quiet expensive, especially because of transport cost.
Thanks.
11-19-2011, 02:59 PM
#2
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4 point roll bar.
the cross bar should be at least 2" above your helmet. the rear downward bars will go into the trunk area which you would loose your tonal cover.
MAYBE they would accept that. ???
With this type your convertible top would have to stay DOWN all the time.
ie get that clubs requirements for safety equipment.
the cross bar should be at least 2" above your helmet. the rear downward bars will go into the trunk area which you would loose your tonal cover.
MAYBE they would accept that. ???
With this type your convertible top would have to stay DOWN all the time.
ie get that clubs requirements for safety equipment.
11-19-2011, 03:29 PM
#3
Team Owner
A suitable roll bar/cage would be the only answer. What does the sanctioning body or track owners require? A roll bar/cage will also allow for the installation of a a suitable 5 or 6-point harness, but you should also consider a proper race seat that has holes for allowing the harness webbing to pass thru the seat and not wrap around the seat edges. A submarine belt is a necessary item with these types of harnesses.
A proper bar should also be welded to the car frame. There are bolt-in units but welding provides the necessary strength to prevent the bar from coming loose or being torn off if a roll should occur.
I don't think I have ever heard of an aftermarket C5 convertible hardtop that offers any sort of rollover protection. The later C4 convertibles had a factory hardtop that offered a level of rollover protection but that top bolted to the B-pillars and worked well.
A proper bar should also be welded to the car frame. There are bolt-in units but welding provides the necessary strength to prevent the bar from coming loose or being torn off if a roll should occur.
I don't think I have ever heard of an aftermarket C5 convertible hardtop that offers any sort of rollover protection. The later C4 convertibles had a factory hardtop that offered a level of rollover protection but that top bolted to the B-pillars and worked well.
11-19-2011, 04:40 PM
#9
Pro
I have begun to go on track with my C5. Here in france, some organizations will not accept a convertible car on the track, even with the roof on.
I don't want to sell my car because I have invested quiet a bit (engine, clutch, suspensions, ...) on it and I like the top down rides too.
What solutions can you think of, that would not make my car difficult to get in and out?
Aftermarket hardtop are quiet expensive, especially because of transport cost.
Thanks.
I don't want to sell my car because I have invested quiet a bit (engine, clutch, suspensions, ...) on it and I like the top down rides too.
What solutions can you think of, that would not make my car difficult to get in and out?
Aftermarket hardtop are quiet expensive, especially because of transport cost.
Thanks.
I would definitely check it out:
http://angelwingstech.com
11-20-2011, 01:17 PM
#13
ideal convertible c5/c6 setup for the track would have a 4pt roll bar or real roll cage, removed soft top, and a hardtop that fits over the setup, especially for higher speed tracks (aero) or wet days.
the problem is that I do not know of any rollbar/hardtop combination that would work particularly well for this. everyone I know who started tracking their convertible corvette, eventually switched to a coupe/Z06.
i am sure a few people figured out a setup that works long term, but I have not met any of them.
if you already invested into your convertible, most mods can be moved.
from what little information is available on that page, i would be very surprised if that "roll bar" provides any protection at all in case of rollover incident.
the problem is that I do not know of any rollbar/hardtop combination that would work particularly well for this. everyone I know who started tracking their convertible corvette, eventually switched to a coupe/Z06.
i am sure a few people figured out a setup that works long term, but I have not met any of them.
if you already invested into your convertible, most mods can be moved.
I was in the same predicament and decided I don't want to cut my car up with a full roll bar. It's to nice and I am not planning on doing any SCCA or other serious racing. I just need something for HPDE events. After researching all the options I came across the TrackDay Roll Bar from AnglesWing Tech. It is a complete bolt in bar that can be installed in less than a couple of hours. No cutting, no welding and it works with the top. I also know it has been approved at tracks across the country. It is a really exceptional piece. I think for a convertible HPDE car it is by far the best option. And I've seen it in person. However, if you are over six feet it probably won't work for you but that goes for most convertible roll bars as well. At least the ones I researched.
I would definitely check it out:
http://angelwingstech.com
I would definitely check it out:
http://angelwingstech.com
from what little information is available on that page, i would be very surprised if that "roll bar" provides any protection at all in case of rollover incident.
11-20-2011, 02:03 PM
#14
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Does targa (without roll cage) provide that much more protection than convert? I doubt it.
My point is : if they accept targa, they should accept convert with an aftermarket hardtop or those hoops.
I don"t do extreme speed tracks right now. I think the roll over can happen but risk is really minimal. No race and the organizators usually "fire" too agressive drivers that put themselves or the others at risk.
My point is : if they accept targa, they should accept convert with an aftermarket hardtop or those hoops.
I don"t do extreme speed tracks right now. I think the roll over can happen but risk is really minimal. No race and the organizators usually "fire" too agressive drivers that put themselves or the others at risk.
11-20-2011, 03:31 PM
#15
If you intend to participate solely in track day or HPDE events, Angelwings Tech makes just what you want. I ran yesterday at a Speed Ventures event Auto Club Speedway in Fontana and had a blast. Of the 25+ Corvettes participating, mine was the only convertible. So while I might not have been the fastest, I definitely scored high on the "fun factor" scale. 135 mph plus with the top down!
Their C5C6 Track Day Bar is a true bolt-in that is easily installed, looks great and does not interfere with the operation of the top. In addition to Speed Ventures, 10/10ths, and other track day organizers, it has been approved for use at numerous tracks across the U.S. I don't why French tracks or organizers would be any different.
Check their website at www.angelwingstech.com. They also make Angel Pads, which are an absolute necessity if you have the stock seats.
Their C5C6 Track Day Bar is a true bolt-in that is easily installed, looks great and does not interfere with the operation of the top. In addition to Speed Ventures, 10/10ths, and other track day organizers, it has been approved for use at numerous tracks across the U.S. I don't why French tracks or organizers would be any different.
Check their website at www.angelwingstech.com. They also make Angel Pads, which are an absolute necessity if you have the stock seats.
11-20-2011, 03:51 PM
#16
Does targa (without roll cage) provide that much more protection than convert? I doubt it.
My point is : if they accept targa, they should accept convert with an aftermarket hardtop or those hoops.
I don"t do extreme speed tracks right now. I think the roll over can happen but risk is really minimal. No race and the organizators usually "fire" too agressive drivers that put themselves or the others at risk.
My point is : if they accept targa, they should accept convert with an aftermarket hardtop or those hoops.
I don"t do extreme speed tracks right now. I think the roll over can happen but risk is really minimal. No race and the organizators usually "fire" too agressive drivers that put themselves or the others at risk.
11-20-2011, 03:55 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
There's a bunch of events out there that wouldn't care if you used exhaust tubing for the rollbar, they'ed still let you run.
That's fine if that's the way you want to go.
In SCCA PDX or Club Trials, the targa is fine. A convertable must have factory rollover protection or a rollbar that meets the minium rules for these street car events.
The anglewing would not pass tech. And after 12 years as an instructor, I wouldn't ride in a car with one let alone a vert with no protection.
11-20-2011, 04:19 PM
#19
A targa has a boatload of more rollover protection than a vert. It's been factory tested for rollover.
There's a bunch of events out there that wouldn't care if you used exhaust tubing for the rollbar, they'ed still let you run.
That's fine if that's the way you want to go.
In SCCA PDX or Club Trials, the targa is fine. A convertable must have factory rollover protection or a rollbar that meets the minium rules for these street car events.
The anglewing would not pass tech. And after 12 years as an instructor, I wouldn't ride in a car with one let alone a vert with no protection.
There's a bunch of events out there that wouldn't care if you used exhaust tubing for the rollbar, they'ed still let you run.
That's fine if that's the way you want to go.
In SCCA PDX or Club Trials, the targa is fine. A convertable must have factory rollover protection or a rollbar that meets the minium rules for these street car events.
The anglewing would not pass tech. And after 12 years as an instructor, I wouldn't ride in a car with one let alone a vert with no protection.
I do get that it is a bit of a long-winded rant, but I feel that we "DE crowd" do not pay enough attention to these issues. I know I wasn't, until I realized that very bad DE crashes do happen, sometimes to people I know, and I will experience one at some point too - just a matter of time.
I cannot help but think back to that blue convertible on the track today. I did do some research into Corvette's roll over protection and federal standards a while back. As a result of that research, and hearing firsthand about some people's experiences, I made a personal decision to install additional protection (4pt roll bar, racing seats and harnesses routed to safely work with a HANS device) into my hardtop Corvette that already has a reinforced "hoop" in the roof.
When I checked into this, it appeared that federal test (which corvette convertibles do pass) involves pushing down on a stationary, tied down vehicle with a horizontal plate, excerting force equal to 3 times the vehicle's "dry" weight. Full report/standards/details and a lot of discussion and considerations can be found here: http://cryptome.org/0001/nhtsa051209.htm, this appears to be newer version than what I saw before, so things may have changed.
There are a few issues with this test as opposed to a real world incident, the ones that bother me the most involve what DOT calls "Partial ejections" - some body parts leaving the confines of a vehicle, likely with the seatbelt still worn, as well as dynamics of repeated side and roof impacts (similar to XXX incident that happened a while back at XXX). While I am happy to know that my car can withstand the weight of 3 corvettes parked on the roof of my car, that particular type of incident is pretty rare
It is my strong belief that anyone who gets into this hobby/sport is personally responsible for their personal safety and safety of their vehicle. However, I remember myself when I went to attend XXX a few years ago. I did not have a clue. I was an "excellent driver", the track was there just so that I don't have to "worry about the speed limits", and my car was a pinnacle of modern engineering in terms of both performance and safety. I have come a long way in understanding how wrong I was on all of those points, but I bet the mindset of your average novice student is very similar to what I described above.
I wish there was a way to do more to educate the beginners in this sport about realities of on-track safety, without scaring most of them away. I tend to be pretty straightforward with people interested in this and I tell them that they may indeed crash, they may seriously injure themselves, and that it could happen even if they are excellent and safe drivers, and when all is said and done their insurance may not be there to help clean up the mess. It does tend to dampen enthusiasm, but I still got quite a few to attend their first DE or performance driving school over the last few years.
I think it is especially important to educate owners of cars that have some well known safety compromises "engineered in", i.e. convertibles, cars with inadequate for the track stock braking systems, cars with high CG, etc, so they can make informed decisions and have realistic expectations of a level of protection they have. I have no idea if there is even a good way to do this without making people feel like you are trying to insult their fancy rides or drive them away...
When I checked into this, it appeared that federal test (which corvette convertibles do pass) involves pushing down on a stationary, tied down vehicle with a horizontal plate, excerting force equal to 3 times the vehicle's "dry" weight. Full report/standards/details and a lot of discussion and considerations can be found here: http://cryptome.org/0001/nhtsa051209.htm, this appears to be newer version than what I saw before, so things may have changed.
There are a few issues with this test as opposed to a real world incident, the ones that bother me the most involve what DOT calls "Partial ejections" - some body parts leaving the confines of a vehicle, likely with the seatbelt still worn, as well as dynamics of repeated side and roof impacts (similar to XXX incident that happened a while back at XXX). While I am happy to know that my car can withstand the weight of 3 corvettes parked on the roof of my car, that particular type of incident is pretty rare
It is my strong belief that anyone who gets into this hobby/sport is personally responsible for their personal safety and safety of their vehicle. However, I remember myself when I went to attend XXX a few years ago. I did not have a clue. I was an "excellent driver", the track was there just so that I don't have to "worry about the speed limits", and my car was a pinnacle of modern engineering in terms of both performance and safety. I have come a long way in understanding how wrong I was on all of those points, but I bet the mindset of your average novice student is very similar to what I described above.
I wish there was a way to do more to educate the beginners in this sport about realities of on-track safety, without scaring most of them away. I tend to be pretty straightforward with people interested in this and I tell them that they may indeed crash, they may seriously injure themselves, and that it could happen even if they are excellent and safe drivers, and when all is said and done their insurance may not be there to help clean up the mess. It does tend to dampen enthusiasm, but I still got quite a few to attend their first DE or performance driving school over the last few years.
I think it is especially important to educate owners of cars that have some well known safety compromises "engineered in", i.e. convertibles, cars with inadequate for the track stock braking systems, cars with high CG, etc, so they can make informed decisions and have realistic expectations of a level of protection they have. I have no idea if there is even a good way to do this without making people feel like you are trying to insult their fancy rides or drive them away...