JohnAlley

Moving from HPDE4 to NASA TIme Trials in 2012 and am trying to decide what group to run in. I have a 2004 Z06 with a Vararam air intake making approx. 377hp at rear wheels. I have been looking at TTA but seems it is getting harder and harder to keep within the allowed point range. How much differance is it between TTA and TTS, hp/wt ratio is the same ?

PushinTheLimit

TTA = $$
TTS = $$$$$
TTU = $$$$$$$$

Top TTS national guys are running full aero and it is the same WT/HP ratio... but quite a bit more car prep for TTS over TTA.

TTA would be a good starting point for anyone moving up from HPDE. They way you don't have to throw too much money at your car to be competitive. Just look how fast Scott Perkins, Mark Nunnally and Jason Ireland are in their TTA/PTA vettes.

varkwso

HP ratio is the same and you are not limited in what you can do. TTA is a fast class needing a lot of prep ($$) and limitations in tire size and mods. TT$ is almost "run what you brung" with some mild prep cars (like mine $) to mega prep purpose built cars ($$$$$). It is an easier class for a modded car to run in.

travisnd

TTA has generally been "spec-C5Z", but that's all changing. New rules are forcing the transition to smaller tires allowing more mods to win. You can leave the car nearly stock and spend all your points on tires, but you won't be in the hunt.

TTS is more simple since the modding is open and you really only need to focus on power/weight ratios, but it's much more expensive to have a fully optimized car that can compete at the top. You're going to need full aero, brakes and suspension.

varkwso

And their cars are massively prepped. Getting one to their level of prep takes skill and time or $$ to them...

sperkins

I think that TTA is a better class from a "fun" point of view.
The cool thing to me is that you have a box to work within and you have to be very creative inside that box to build a top tier car.
That being said, it can definitely be done (and much cheaper than TTS).
I personally don't think the new tire ruling will keep the TTA C5's from the podium. It simply adds another aspect to the box.

Jason

My observations:
1. TTA/PTA is off the chart cheaper to have a nationally competitive car. Which turn faster lap times than 95% of TTS/ST2 cars.

2. People in HPDE are likely to spend money making the car faster instead of themselves,
so by the time they are ready for TT the have modded themselves out of TTA/PTA.

3. People would rather spend money on coilovers and wings than track time and instruction.

drivinhard

Top prep TT$ C5 is gonna be 2-4 secs/lap faster at most tracks vs a top prep TTA C5.

To take an already top prep TTA C5 and make it a top prep TT$ C5 is about $30,000+ Open rules means open wallet.

Jason

If I had $30k, I'd find a way to spend $60k. Motors, trans internals, gears, weight, weight, weight. Unsprung. Rotating. Then shocks, shocks shocks. Then the aero can of worms. Then back to springs and shocks.

AU N EGL

Either way the V-ram air intake will need to come off and the stock air box back on for TTA.

You could run TTS as is.

varkwso

Look at your region and see what they numbers say. TTA and TTS are both strong here in the southeast. The TTA has the most consistent top tier cars at events. TTS has all of us that are pointed out due to mixed motors/trans/tire preference/more/ etc. Top tier TTS cars rarely play in the SE. I run for the season, for the contingency, for the podium and lastly for the track record. Cars last longer that way. The mix of cars change as people move to more w2w. Everyone wants cannon fodder in their class.

My TTS car is really an overweight TTA car with a LS6 head swap (what I had when the original 2004 LS1 head cracked last year), aftermarket damper, mismatched injectors, and big tires. When I do my part the car places well. I ALWAYS have a good.time. Better when I beat Khoi.

beerkat

I run a near stock C5Z in TTA. You get 19 points to play with. Being a Z takes 7 points to start with, Two points for the adjustable end links, I can add a T1 sway bar for no more points. With the R6 tires another 10. That is my 19 points. But I have fun and that to me is the important thing.

redtopz

If all you have done is a vararam so far then I would sell that and run TTA. Get some poly bushings, sway bars, seat/harness, and go kick some butt. However, first I would see how many cars are running TTA vs. TTS and make sure you have the opportunity to win tires. If TTS has more cars then that might be incentive to move up.

96CollectorSport

John,

Take a look at the participation numbers for both classes - I know that Nathan is trying to sell his EVO, David told me at Rd Am that he wants to prep his car for PTA and if Rory does anything next year it will be W2W, weather that means PTA or ST2 I'm not sure. That kind of opens up TTA for the taking in the GL/MW regions next year. If you were to run TTS you would be up against agrueably the toughest TTS fields in the country 3 of the past 4 TTS National champs have come out of the GL/MW regions and it's a pretty tough group to crack the top 5 much less a podium.
June Mid-Ohio the "slowest" car on the podium was a 1.31.xx!

MYRX

I recently switched from TTA to TT$. I made the jump because I elected not to have a stripped and totally dedicated track car, (I realized quickly in the SE Region, to be a top finisher, that was the min requirement. Those cars are really well thought out and prepared. That being said, a lot of the testing and preparation has already been done and the group is wonderful about helping each other). You can not argue with success.

TTS allows me the freedom to maintain a few mods and still enjoy my car. For example, I have changed my springs, shocks, bushings, and sway bars and I can run the tires I choose. However, I still have all of the interior and can drive on the street if I desire. I realize in TT$ I will never be a top finisher. But I have blast just the same and I take beating my old time each event very serious. ( Of course I want to be faster than other drivers).

Bottom line: If I was looking to be a National or Regional top finisher, I would choose TTA because that is the most my budget can handle. For the experiences I want, TT$ is the right choice.

beerkat

In the SE I would say that TTA is the harder of the two to win in. With Scott and Mark running third is the only spot that not decide on.

davidfarmer

I disagree with sperkins (respectfully) about TTA being more "fun". It is fun like SCCA T1 is fun....if you like building a car to VERY specific rules, and knowing that you will never be competitive unless you do all of the little things that get difficult and costly (light weight clutch, gutted everything).

If you want to do brakes, aero, or even just random things that look cool (say a nice aftermarket hood, spoiler etc), you will immediately bump yourself out of TTA.

So if you want hard competition in a spec class, TTA/PTA is great, but if you want to build a car that is more personalized, then TTS/ST2 is a better choice.

It's about choice, not which is better or worse. Either is a money pit to some extent.

drivinhard

Boy if you think gutting a car and putting in a $1400 clutch is costly, watch Forbis' TTS car run and see how much time/$$/testing you'd need to do to build a piece to run with that I wouldn't be surprised to see a 1:27 this weekend.

I get what you are saying though, I probably enjoy the "car" part of it as much as driving, maybe more. So the creativity part of ST2 is alluring. However, my imagination is way beyond my wallet.

Obviously regionally (a bit less intense than nationally) you can have fun in either, and be pretty competitive with a moderate piece in either. There's still a few of the track records still standing from the "OEM clutch and rubber bushing and still drove it to the track" days. It can be done.

travisnd

Clearly I'm bringing a knife to a gun fight



I enjoy the tweaking and inventing a "better mousetrap" aspect of the whole thing very much. I like making things better/cleaner than they were before so building a dedicated race car out of a bone stock Z06 was very fun for me.

ST-2 would be great but I just can't afford to develop the car to the level it needs to be to be competitive (but David's "Recession Aero" thread has given me some ideas). Then I have to learn how to drive five seconds a lap faster Running around mid pack is of no interest to me. If I'm going to put the work into it and show up I'm going to give it my all and want to be in the hunt.

I guess being a desk jockey all day makes this the only venue to have any competition in my life. I don't desire to do any intramural/adult-league sports anymore and I don't do anything competitive in the gym... so this is it

Timz06

My car an old T1 car and is slower than the TTA cars, but I usually win 1 - 2 tires per weekend with it and have had a lot of fun races in ST2 regionally against like cars. Nationally it would not be competitive at all.

Tim