Data Logger in Autocross
12-03-2011, 07:54 PM
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Data Logger in Autocross
1. How useful and how essential are these, as feedback (in addition to seat time and video).
2. Does the additional feedback make you a better autocrosser? (It seems clear to me that they are valuable at the track and in testing the car.)
3. Can you often benefit from playback on the day of the event? Will it change the way you drive during the event?
PS In my experience, video is helpful, data loggers seem somewhat obsessive for autocross?
I'd appreciate input on this.
Mike
2. Does the additional feedback make you a better autocrosser? (It seems clear to me that they are valuable at the track and in testing the car.)
3. Can you often benefit from playback on the day of the event? Will it change the way you drive during the event?
PS In my experience, video is helpful, data loggers seem somewhat obsessive for autocross?
I'd appreciate input on this.
Mike
12-04-2011, 06:40 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
This post has been out there almost all day and nobody has replied, so I'll give it a shot...
I've data logged every run for the last 20 years. Once you get used to looking at data it's easy to learn a lot from each run. I haven't used video because it doesn't tell you as much. The reason is you can't see how close to the cones you are unless your video is taken from the side of the car.
Data is much more useful if you have two drivers in the car and can compare each run for each driver. Then you can see where each driver did something better and learn from it. In the long run you both go faster.
We used to break the course into five segments and do splits. Then we clocked lots of drivers over the same segments and saw where they were the faster and slower. As you are standing there you can think about where you need to gain time and that becomes evident with splits. If you have 20% of the course and you say to yourself "I need to get faster in this segment what can I do", that's a very differnt thing than saying "Where in the #e!! is a half a second!!!".. With splits you say I'm losing time here and then you can ask yourself why... Was I wide and took a longer line, did I overcook it, or did I slow too much for something. If you are only looking at a small part of the course it's pretty easy to find time if you know that you are slow in one spot. And you will also be relieved that you are fast in some places as the best and it gives you confidence that you can indeed run as fast at the fastest car in the class, which is a big part of the battle.
Data is harder to work with since it is hard to download and digest it all in one heat. I know some folks that do it, but I've never had a system that I could download and overlay a bunch of data an get anything from it between runs. Today's data collection systems are much better than I've got, so maybe today you could do it effectively. Looking at it in hindsight it becomes very evident where you've lost time, so long as you have more than one driver in the car.
If you are serious, you need to take data on every run. If you can digest it in real time, that's even better.
I've data logged every run for the last 20 years. Once you get used to looking at data it's easy to learn a lot from each run. I haven't used video because it doesn't tell you as much. The reason is you can't see how close to the cones you are unless your video is taken from the side of the car.
Data is much more useful if you have two drivers in the car and can compare each run for each driver. Then you can see where each driver did something better and learn from it. In the long run you both go faster.
We used to break the course into five segments and do splits. Then we clocked lots of drivers over the same segments and saw where they were the faster and slower. As you are standing there you can think about where you need to gain time and that becomes evident with splits. If you have 20% of the course and you say to yourself "I need to get faster in this segment what can I do", that's a very differnt thing than saying "Where in the #e!! is a half a second!!!".. With splits you say I'm losing time here and then you can ask yourself why... Was I wide and took a longer line, did I overcook it, or did I slow too much for something. If you are only looking at a small part of the course it's pretty easy to find time if you know that you are slow in one spot. And you will also be relieved that you are fast in some places as the best and it gives you confidence that you can indeed run as fast at the fastest car in the class, which is a big part of the battle.
Data is harder to work with since it is hard to download and digest it all in one heat. I know some folks that do it, but I've never had a system that I could download and overlay a bunch of data an get anything from it between runs. Today's data collection systems are much better than I've got, so maybe today you could do it effectively. Looking at it in hindsight it becomes very evident where you've lost time, so long as you have more than one driver in the car.
If you are serious, you need to take data on every run. If you can digest it in real time, that's even better.
Last edited by Solofast; 12-04-2011 at 10:24 PM.
12-04-2011, 08:55 PM
#4
We don't use a full logger type setup. But we do run a pretty standard g-meter type setup that logs each run. We mostly use the calculated average and peak g's. With two drivers this helps to see that each driver is actually making full use of the grip, and we use it to dial in tire pressures as well.
Not to say we couldn't benefit from a full data-logging setup...but this does help us often especially when determining when our slicks are "falling off".
Zack
Not to say we couldn't benefit from a full data-logging setup...but this does help us often especially when determining when our slicks are "falling off".
Zack
12-05-2011, 01:17 AM
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As solofast says, if you can get an excellent driver to share your car at a number
of events, you can learn a lot from the data. I have a race-technology AX22,
and it has stood me in good stead for years.
of events, you can learn a lot from the data. I have a race-technology AX22,
and it has stood me in good stead for years.
12-05-2011, 01:40 AM
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This post has been out there almost all day and nobody has replied, so I'll give it a shot...
I've data logged every run for the last 20 years. Once you get used to looking at data it's easy to learn a lot from each run. I haven't used video because it doesn't tell you as much. The reason is you can't see how close to the cones you are unless your video is taken from the side of the car.
Data is much more useful if you have two drivers in the car and can compare each run for each driver. Then you can see where each driver did something better and learn from it. In the long run you both go faster.
We used to break the course into five segments and do splits. Then we clocked lots of drivers over the same segments and saw where they were the faster and slower. As you are standing there you can think about where you need to gain time and that becomes evident with splits. If you have 20% of the course and you say to yourself "I need to get faster in this segment what can I do", that's a very differnt thing than saying "Where in the #e!! is a half a second!!!".. With splits you say I'm losing time here and then you can ask yourself why... Was I wide and took a longer line, did I overcook it, or did I slow too much for something. If you are only looking at a small part of the course it's pretty easy to find time if you know that you are slow in one spot. And you will also be relieved that you are fast in some places as the best and it gives you confidence that you can indeed run as fast at the fastest car in the class, which is a big part of the battle.
Data is harder to work with since it is hard to download and digest it all in one heat. I know some folks that do it, but I've never had a system that I could download and overlay a bunch of data an get anything from it between runs. Today's data collection systems are much better than I've got, so maybe today you could do it effectively. Looking at it in hindsight it becomes very evident where you've lost time, so long as you have more than one driver in the car.
If you are serious, you need to take data on every run. If you can digest it in real time, that's even better.
I've data logged every run for the last 20 years. Once you get used to looking at data it's easy to learn a lot from each run. I haven't used video because it doesn't tell you as much. The reason is you can't see how close to the cones you are unless your video is taken from the side of the car.
Data is much more useful if you have two drivers in the car and can compare each run for each driver. Then you can see where each driver did something better and learn from it. In the long run you both go faster.
We used to break the course into five segments and do splits. Then we clocked lots of drivers over the same segments and saw where they were the faster and slower. As you are standing there you can think about where you need to gain time and that becomes evident with splits. If you have 20% of the course and you say to yourself "I need to get faster in this segment what can I do", that's a very differnt thing than saying "Where in the #e!! is a half a second!!!".. With splits you say I'm losing time here and then you can ask yourself why... Was I wide and took a longer line, did I overcook it, or did I slow too much for something. If you are only looking at a small part of the course it's pretty easy to find time if you know that you are slow in one spot. And you will also be relieved that you are fast in some places as the best and it gives you confidence that you can indeed run as fast at the fastest car in the class, which is a big part of the battle.
Data is harder to work with since it is hard to download and digest it all in one heat. I know some folks that do it, but I've never had a system that I could download and overlay a bunch of data an get anything from it between runs. Today's data collection systems are much better than I've got, so maybe today you could do it effectively. Looking at it in hindsight it becomes very evident where you've lost time, so long as you have more than one driver in the car.
If you are serious, you need to take data on every run. If you can digest it in real time, that's even better.
Thanks for a detailed and a very helpful response.
I'm sold on the idea of collecting data and having an experienced driver share the car.
I now need to sort out what kind of data logger. Some have high frequency GPS position sampling, others seem to rely more on accelerometer data for the detail. Due to complexity of the autocross courses, a high frequency of sampling seems important. Does it make a big difference what the main source of data detail is (GPS vs accelerometer)?
Thanks again.
Mike
12-05-2011, 01:45 AM
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12-05-2011, 01:51 AM
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A key to enjoying/benefiting from a datalogger is
the software it provides for analyzing the data.
If you don't get happy with the analysis tools,
you won't get far with raw data.
The dataloggers I know (and you want GPS+accel)
all give their software out free for download, and
they have sample input files, typically from race tracks,
but that may be good enough to start with. Look
around at events for folks who have a unit, and ask
them to email you some of their data files so you can
try the software for their units.
Race Technology is base in the U.K. but popular here
too. Their site has the software, data and training videos.
If you find someone else who runs with you regularly and
has a datalogger, it might be good to get the same, so
your buddy and you can share data from the same day etc...
There are ways to convert one units' data files to another,
but that's getting techy....
the software it provides for analyzing the data.
If you don't get happy with the analysis tools,
you won't get far with raw data.
The dataloggers I know (and you want GPS+accel)
all give their software out free for download, and
they have sample input files, typically from race tracks,
but that may be good enough to start with. Look
around at events for folks who have a unit, and ask
them to email you some of their data files so you can
try the software for their units.
Race Technology is base in the U.K. but popular here
too. Their site has the software, data and training videos.
If you find someone else who runs with you regularly and
has a datalogger, it might be good to get the same, so
your buddy and you can share data from the same day etc...
There are ways to convert one units' data files to another,
but that's getting techy....
