Stock C6 Z06 brake caliper problem
12-06-2011, 12:03 AM
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Stock C6 Z06 brake caliper problem
I've seen this reported before here on the forum, and last weekend I had it happen.
This is on my 2006 Z06 with OE calipers:
That's the front right caliper and you can see that the bottom pad pin bolt had backed out, and that allowed the bottom padlet to fall out of the caliper!!!
This was during the 3 day Daytona HPDE. It was the 2nd session on the 3rd day, and I was coming down the front straight and had a loud "bang" while accelerating toward the s/f line and brake zone for the turn into the infield. When you get a bang while going 165 it gets your attention!!
At first I thought it was a tire problem, but I was still going straight with no vibes, so I lifted and started decelerating.
I applied the brakes at about 150 and the steering wheel jerked to the left, so I let off and blew the turn into the infield and limped around the course trying not to use brakes too much.
With the padlet gone, when I applied the brakes the piston was pushed against the rotor and caused this:
You can see it's scored where the piston scraped on it. The piston that contacted the rotor got ground down a little bit, but it was still okay to use for the next 2 sessions.
Over lunch I took off the caliper, pushed the damaged piston back in, and determined that it would work okay for the next 2 sessions on the track.
I put on a backup rotor on the right front, fresh padlets for both front calipers, bled the 2 front calipers, and was good to go for the afternoon sessions and the brakes worked great.
There was a very small nick on a spoke inside of the wheel - I'm not even sure it's from the pad pin bolt. There was a strip of wheel weights that had a big gash in them from when the padlet hit them when it came out of the caliper.
Now I've got a project - I'll have to get a bunch of pistons and seals/gaskets and rebuild the calipers before my next track events - I probably will send them out to MikeThePowdercoater because they're pretty ratty looking.
When swapping pads I always just remove the caliper, so I haven't regularly removed/replaced those bolts, and I did check them with an allen wrench the previous afternoon and they looked like they were seated properly when I checked them visually. Because I don't remove them to swap pads, I probably should just loctite the hell out of them so they'll never come out.
Or....maybe just go with some StopTechs or other aftermarket calipers!!!
If you run one-piece pads you probably won't have that problem - if a pad pin bolt backs out, the crossbar on the caliper will keep it from falling out, especially if your one-piece pads have holes in the center for the center pins to go through.
Bob
This is on my 2006 Z06 with OE calipers:
That's the front right caliper and you can see that the bottom pad pin bolt had backed out, and that allowed the bottom padlet to fall out of the caliper!!!
This was during the 3 day Daytona HPDE. It was the 2nd session on the 3rd day, and I was coming down the front straight and had a loud "bang" while accelerating toward the s/f line and brake zone for the turn into the infield. When you get a bang while going 165 it gets your attention!!
At first I thought it was a tire problem, but I was still going straight with no vibes, so I lifted and started decelerating.
I applied the brakes at about 150 and the steering wheel jerked to the left, so I let off and blew the turn into the infield and limped around the course trying not to use brakes too much.
With the padlet gone, when I applied the brakes the piston was pushed against the rotor and caused this:
You can see it's scored where the piston scraped on it. The piston that contacted the rotor got ground down a little bit, but it was still okay to use for the next 2 sessions.
Over lunch I took off the caliper, pushed the damaged piston back in, and determined that it would work okay for the next 2 sessions on the track.
I put on a backup rotor on the right front, fresh padlets for both front calipers, bled the 2 front calipers, and was good to go for the afternoon sessions and the brakes worked great.
There was a very small nick on a spoke inside of the wheel - I'm not even sure it's from the pad pin bolt. There was a strip of wheel weights that had a big gash in them from when the padlet hit them when it came out of the caliper.
Now I've got a project - I'll have to get a bunch of pistons and seals/gaskets and rebuild the calipers before my next track events - I probably will send them out to MikeThePowdercoater because they're pretty ratty looking.
When swapping pads I always just remove the caliper, so I haven't regularly removed/replaced those bolts, and I did check them with an allen wrench the previous afternoon and they looked like they were seated properly when I checked them visually. Because I don't remove them to swap pads, I probably should just loctite the hell out of them so they'll never come out.
Or....maybe just go with some StopTechs or other aftermarket calipers!!!
If you run one-piece pads you probably won't have that problem - if a pad pin bolt backs out, the crossbar on the caliper will keep it from falling out, especially if your one-piece pads have holes in the center for the center pins to go through.
Bob
12-06-2011, 08:56 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Do yourself a favor and dump them. I have an 06Z as well. After about 3-4 years, I just couldn't take them any longer. The list of problems goes on...and those paddlets...ugh! WTF was GM thinking.
If you plan on doing more HPDE's, you will get back all the money you spent on the new calipers through pad savings. I use a Wilwood 6 piston kit and after 4-5 track days, I still have 2-3 days left on my Wilwood H pads. Even the 1 piece OEM pads don't last that long and they are expensive. My wilwood H's are like $140 where the Carbotechs are like $350 and won't last 1/2 as long.
Do the math.
If you plan on doing more HPDE's, you will get back all the money you spent on the new calipers through pad savings. I use a Wilwood 6 piston kit and after 4-5 track days, I still have 2-3 days left on my Wilwood H pads. Even the 1 piece OEM pads don't last that long and they are expensive. My wilwood H's are like $140 where the Carbotechs are like $350 and won't last 1/2 as long.
Do the math.
12-06-2011, 11:06 AM
#4
After one pretty hairy track incident where we balled up our C6Z race car after losing a padlet we decided to dump the stock calipers. We've tried StopTechs and eventually settled on the Brembo 380mm kit, which is the only brake upgrade that we sell.
The incident we had absolutely sold us on the benefits of a dedicated racing brake setup of some kid when tracking the C6Z. If you aren't running an aftermarket caliper at least move to a 1 piece pad to prevent this from happening, because it sure gets your attention when it does!
The incident we had absolutely sold us on the benefits of a dedicated racing brake setup of some kid when tracking the C6Z. If you aren't running an aftermarket caliper at least move to a 1 piece pad to prevent this from happening, because it sure gets your attention when it does!
12-06-2011, 03:49 PM
#5
Race Director
Really ought to be a mfg recall on this before someone buy's the farm. Please report it to NHTSA
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
12-06-2011, 03:52 PM
#6
Drifting
Hi Bob,
dvandentop originally reported this as a problem where his pins backed out and hit the wheel. I immediately added it to my tech checklist and the next time I went through my pre-event tech, I found two loose bolts.
Please keep me posted on what you decide to do WRT the calipers. I also need to either rebuild mine, exchange them or go BBK. Like 95 jersey indicated, the BBK probably pays for it's self pretty quickly when pad are $300-400 and only last two track days.
Jim
dvandentop originally reported this as a problem where his pins backed out and hit the wheel. I immediately added it to my tech checklist and the next time I went through my pre-event tech, I found two loose bolts.
Please keep me posted on what you decide to do WRT the calipers. I also need to either rebuild mine, exchange them or go BBK. Like 95 jersey indicated, the BBK probably pays for it's self pretty quickly when pad are $300-400 and only last two track days.
Jim
12-06-2011, 04:00 PM
#7
Drifting
Do yourself a favor and dump them. I have an 06Z as well. After about 3-4 years, I just couldn't take them any longer. The list of problems goes on...and those paddlets...ugh! WTF was GM thinking.
If you plan on doing more HPDE's, you will get back all the money you spent on the new calipers through pad savings. I use a Wilwood 6 piston kit and after 4-5 track days, I still have 2-3 days left on my Wilwood H pads. Even the 1 piece OEM pads don't last that long and they are expensive. My wilwood H's are like $140 where the Carbotechs are like $350 and won't last 1/2 as long.
Do the math.
If you plan on doing more HPDE's, you will get back all the money you spent on the new calipers through pad savings. I use a Wilwood 6 piston kit and after 4-5 track days, I still have 2-3 days left on my Wilwood H pads. Even the 1 piece OEM pads don't last that long and they are expensive. My wilwood H's are like $140 where the Carbotechs are like $350 and won't last 1/2 as long.
Do the math.
Thanks,
Jim
Last edited by jlutherva; 12-06-2011 at 04:06 PM. Reason: grammar
12-06-2011, 05:35 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
95jersey, What are you using for rear brakes? If OEM calipers, what pads do you think are a good balance for the Wilwood H front pads? What other pads are available for the Wilwood front calipers? What factors did you consider before deciding on the Wilwood calipers and H pads. I know nothing about BBK kits.
Thanks,
Jim
Thanks,
Jim
I think either the XP10/12 is a great balance for Wilwood H's. I also did this on my C5Z when I had the SL6 caliper on that car (little brother to the W6A). Wilwood has many compounds (A, H, B, C, BP-30), my suggestion is to google and see what best fits your need. Most use H for track and they are CHEAP, can be bought at Jeggs on sale, and last a long time. I use BP-10 for street.
Many factors went into my decision to go with the Wilwood kit. Probably the most attractive factor was that I could retain the OEM rotors. I personally like the OEM rotors and they are very cheap compared to aftermarket 2 piece designs by Stoptech, Brembo and even Wilwood. So, I wanted a kit that used OEM rotors and fit under OEM wheels.
I did not replace my OEM calipers for performance. I replaced them because I got sick of buying $350 brake pads to have them only last 2-3 events. It wasn't so much the price of the Wilwood calipers that drew me in, as the price of expensive rotor ring replacement parts for the other BBK kits drove me away. At the end of the day, you can't beat an $80 replacement rotor.
So, the good side of a BBK is that you will save money and get more life out of your pads. The bad news is that the rings are expensive to replace, which almost negates the savings you get with the pads. With the Wilwood kit, I was able to get my cake and eat it too!
Everybody has different needs and reasons to go BBK, mine was financial, not performance related. My Wilwoods in no way perform better than the OEM brakes and I would never tell anyone they are a performance enhancement. The Stoptechs and Brembo's will definately give you a performance enhancement over OEM, but at the cost of expensive rotor rings.
12-06-2011, 07:39 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Hey bob I am pulling my DBA rotors and DTC70 pads off of my car if you are interested shoot me a PM. They only have about 600 miles on them and all of 5 laps at sebring.
12-06-2011, 08:03 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I have run Z06 oem brakes for 4 years on track and autox. Only issue was the pin bolts stripping so I upgraded to racing brake pins. Pad life I always found good with hawk DTC 60 & 70's........ That said I have moved on to Alcon BBK
My .02
G
My .02
G
12-06-2011, 10:07 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Bob,
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. glad nothing catastrophic resulted from the incident. I haven't experienced the issue on my '06Z with a bunch of track and autocross on it, but will continue to inspect these parts before events and between sessions.. I do run one piece carbotechs.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. glad nothing catastrophic resulted from the incident. I haven't experienced the issue on my '06Z with a bunch of track and autocross on it, but will continue to inspect these parts before events and between sessions.. I do run one piece carbotechs.
12-06-2011, 11:21 PM
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
Bob,
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. glad nothing catastrophic resulted from the incident. I haven't experienced the issue on my '06Z with a bunch of track and autocross on it, but will continue to inspect these parts before events and between sessions.. I do run one piece carbotechs.
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. glad nothing catastrophic resulted from the incident. I haven't experienced the issue on my '06Z with a bunch of track and autocross on it, but will continue to inspect these parts before events and between sessions.. I do run one piece carbotechs.
I missed about 10 minutes of that session, but I threw on a spare rotor, put new pads in both front calipers, bled the front calipers, and ran my two afternoon sessions with no problems!!
Sorry you weren't able to run the event. The track will be busy with the Rolex and the 500 into the middle of March, and the 400 on/about the 4th of July.
I think there may be some club racing and other competitive events in the spring and summer, but I think they all require some kind of racing license.
To my knowledge the only HPDE type track days are in Oct, Nov, and Dec each year.
Anybody coming to Daytona for the Rolex 24 over Jan 28-29 (and a couple days of other races before that) keep an eye out for a thread about a get together for dinner probably Friday night Jan 27th.
Bob
12-07-2011, 10:14 AM
#15
Drifting
I am using the OEM calipers on the rear. With any braking system, the fronts will wear at 4x the rate of the rears. So given that, I kept the OEM rear calipers. I just didn't see the $$$ return to justify a rear BBK. I use the one piece Carbotech XP10's in the rear (for track duty) and Bobcat 1 piece on the street.
I think either the XP10/12 is a great balance for Wilwood H's. I also did this on my C5Z when I had the SL6 caliper on that car (little brother to the W6A). Wilwood has many compounds (A, H, B, C, BP-30), my suggestion is to google and see what best fits your need. Most use H for track and they are CHEAP, can be bought at Jeggs on sale, and last a long time. I use BP-10 for street.
Many factors went into my decision to go with the Wilwood kit. Probably the most attractive factor was that I could retain the OEM rotors. I personally like the OEM rotors and they are very cheap compared to aftermarket 2 piece designs by Stoptech, Brembo and even Wilwood. So, I wanted a kit that used OEM rotors and fit under OEM wheels.
I did not replace my OEM calipers for performance. I replaced them because I got sick of buying $350 brake pads to have them only last 2-3 events. It wasn't so much the price of the Wilwood calipers that drew me in, as the price of expensive rotor ring replacement parts for the other BBK kits drove me away. At the end of the day, you can't beat an $80 replacement rotor.
So, the good side of a BBK is that you will save money and get more life out of your pads. The bad news is that the rings are expensive to replace, which almost negates the savings you get with the pads. With the Wilwood kit, I was able to get my cake and eat it too!
Everybody has different needs and reasons to go BBK, mine was financial, not performance related. My Wilwoods in no way perform better than the OEM brakes and I would never tell anyone they are a performance enhancement. The Stoptechs and Brembo's will definately give you a performance enhancement over OEM, but at the cost of expensive rotor rings.
I think either the XP10/12 is a great balance for Wilwood H's. I also did this on my C5Z when I had the SL6 caliper on that car (little brother to the W6A). Wilwood has many compounds (A, H, B, C, BP-30), my suggestion is to google and see what best fits your need. Most use H for track and they are CHEAP, can be bought at Jeggs on sale, and last a long time. I use BP-10 for street.
Many factors went into my decision to go with the Wilwood kit. Probably the most attractive factor was that I could retain the OEM rotors. I personally like the OEM rotors and they are very cheap compared to aftermarket 2 piece designs by Stoptech, Brembo and even Wilwood. So, I wanted a kit that used OEM rotors and fit under OEM wheels.
I did not replace my OEM calipers for performance. I replaced them because I got sick of buying $350 brake pads to have them only last 2-3 events. It wasn't so much the price of the Wilwood calipers that drew me in, as the price of expensive rotor ring replacement parts for the other BBK kits drove me away. At the end of the day, you can't beat an $80 replacement rotor.
So, the good side of a BBK is that you will save money and get more life out of your pads. The bad news is that the rings are expensive to replace, which almost negates the savings you get with the pads. With the Wilwood kit, I was able to get my cake and eat it too!
Everybody has different needs and reasons to go BBK, mine was financial, not performance related. My Wilwoods in no way perform better than the OEM brakes and I would never tell anyone they are a performance enhancement. The Stoptechs and Brembo's will definately give you a performance enhancement over OEM, but at the cost of expensive rotor rings.
Jim
Last edited by jlutherva; 12-07-2011 at 03:55 PM. Reason: objects >> objectives
