taken19

Hey guys,

I had a thread a couple weeks ago about learning to do a track alignment in the garage. After a few hours of experimenting and thinking, I found a way to check the toe of any of my cars reliably in less than a minute. The tool is very repeatable, to about 1/32".

Here are a couple pics. Made from 1" galvanized conduit, elbows, wooden dowell and drywayy screws. I cut the conduit about 78-80" so it has the ability to measure toe on my Vette, Land Rover and Jeep.

Let me know what you think, but I'm happy with it since I will be swapping from a track alignment to street several times a year (at least I think I will).











Everything was epoxied together to limit movement of joints, thus making for good repeatability. Also, I ground a flat in the screw set in the vertical dowell to make for easy measuring. Just set the horizontal screw on one rim, JUST barely touching it, then measure the opposite tire from rim to flat in the vertical screw. This is a bit easier than the David Farmer method and is a quick and dirty method to check where the toe actually is.

Sean

taken19

A couple more pics since the guyus over in tech were a bit confused.

Falcon

Have you ever used toe plates?

RacePro Engineering

Hi Sean,

For what you are attempting to do with it, that invention will certainly work. However, I do offer a couple of observations. But first, a

DISCLAIMER: On occasion, I have been (unjustly??) accused of making things too complicated. So be it.

Successfully measuring (and adjusting) toe for racing is slightly more involved than simply telling whether your front and rear tires point out, or in. Key portions of setting up the equipment include perfectly centering the steering rack, and measuring from a precisely "square" reference to the chassis. We always do ours "in our garage", and without the use of any electronic equipment whatsoever.

Complete steps are more than I want to go into here, but a big clue would be that you need to reference all four wheels/tires at the same time.

For the Jeep, what you have there will be just fine.
Ed

Bill Dearborn

Ed, a couple of years ago Lou G set the rear toe on my Z using a similar tool and a 24 inch Sears Laser Level to set thrust angle. The level was placed across the rear wheels and aimed at a tape inserted through the front wheels and resting against a spot on the frame that was the same from side to side of the car. I have been using that method to tweak my alignment since then. Crank in more rear toe for the track and take it out for the street.

Once I get the rear set I adjust the front toe.

Bill

froggy47

I say, good job & good pics. But what Ed & Bill said, learn about thrust alignment & make sure that's part of your alignment.

I do my own with Smart Strings & Smart Camber and it's very satisfying when you get it right on your own.

The tools may vary, but the result is what matters.

RacePro Engineering

Hi Bill,

Yup! We (and Bob, and Lou G) are accomplishing the self-same "squaring" of the suspension to the chassis. It is just that Bob and I are using physical strings, and you are using precise light beams.

One of the things I hope to work on over the winter is a method to PERFECTLY center the C4's steering rack, regardless of track rod length and steering wheel position. If you, or Bob, have already worked that out, let me know.

Oh, and keep warm!
Ed

trackboss

I've always used the paralell string method. For some reason I can't visualize the thrust setup. I can't see how it sets toe. Can anyone explain?

taken19

No I haven't. Seemed to be an expensive version doing the same thing that I made.

taken19

Ed, great info. It appears that I still have a lot of learning to do in the alignment world. I was happy just getting predictable results setting camber and toe in my garage. Anybody have links on understanding and setting thrust angle? I may not notice it now since I'm a beginner in the road race world, but I hope to be able to fine tune my butt so I can distinguish between these subtle adjustments you guys are talking about.

rfn026

If you use toe plates make sure you check the end of your tape measure. The riveted ends loosen up with time and can lead to false readings. The tape measure has to be in really good condition.

The other problem with toe plates is they give you a total toe number. You really want to measure from the center line of the car. That's why it's a little better to string your car.

Richard Newton

Falcon

You can make a set for pretty cheap, but even if you buy a set the convenience and quickness they offer, they're worth almost any price.

Storage is a snap, too.

redtopz

Here is my $0.99 alignment procedure :

To measure toe, I use a 1x6 board pressed up against my wheels and a carpenters pencil to draw lines on the floor for each wheel. Then I use a tape measure to measure the distance between the lines in front of and behind each wheel. I always keep the 1x6 in my truck. Once I know total toe, I check thrust. I measure both toe and thrust on the rear wheels before making any changes. That way I can kill 2 birds with one stone if they are both off.

To measure thrust, I take a square ruler and hold it up to the front wheel hub (center) using a crate to support the square. Then I use a lazer level to project a beam from the rear wheel to the square to measure thrust. Repeat on both sides making sure the level is touching the exact same part of the wheel/hub and that the laser level is held the same way against the rear wheel. A small change in rear toe can make a pretty significant change in thrust angle. If I need to adjust toe, then I make sure to adjust the wheel(s) to keep the thrust the same on each side. If the toe is OK, but the thrust is off to one side then I simply adjust the rear toe in the same direction by the same amount. Another nice thing about a magnetized lazer level is I use it to make sure I'm adjusting toe in the direction I'm intending by placing it up against the rotor while turning the tie rod. Sometimes it gets confusing which way to turn the tie rod and it sucks if you adjust in the wrong direction.

I didn't used to check thrust very often until I found that my steering was off center due to my rear thrust being off to one side. Getting the rear wheels centered is worth the effort.

Falcon

I take my car to an alignment shop for laser alignment (camber/caster/toe/thrust) a couple of times during the year so that everything gets set exactly right.

I only use toe plates for checking during prep or if an incident occurs at the track.

Also, when using plates use the same identical make and model of tape measures so that when you pull the tapes tight, you don't have to do a bunch of mental gymnastics converting the reading of different tapes.

froggy47

Scroll down, good explaination re: thrust angle

http://www.anewtoronto.com/wheel%20alignment.html

As for laser pointers, the ones I have tried had a "spot" that was a little big for my taste. With strings & my steel ruler I can read (if I clean my glasses) to 1/64th inch to set toe.

I have found alignment shops (when they do agree to set to your spec.) to be hit & miss and are only as good as the operator of the alignment equipment PLUS the last time it was calibrated. You don't need to calibrate a ruler & strings.

RacePro Engineering

Bob,

I certainly do not want to minimize Sean's work here, or take his thread out into left field, but I absolutely agree with you. In our experience, the biggest battle would be getting the alignment shop "on your side", in the respect that you are [1] asking for something completely outside the specs "in the book", [2] asking them to be VERY precise in their settings, and [3] asking them to "go back over" (and maybe adjust) the other settings AFTER they set toe.

Jody has obviously found place(s) with which he is happy, but even then I bet he is right there, overseeing the process.

If one can find shops that will agree to these requests, and carry them out faithfully, they usually feel they must $urcharge you for the "inconvenience". So, like you, we set up our strings, get out the steel ruler, and I clean my glasses.

My son Dante was always a little suspicious of the string method until about 5 years ago, when the IndyCars visited The Glen. Care to guess what they use to set toe?

Ed

sperkins

I use a very similar method except I use 4 foot carpenter levels screwed on top of 2x4's to elevate them above the tire buldge. Then I just run tapes and measure the difference front to rear to set the toe.
To check thrust, I use a laser level (bought at Lowes) which sits perfectly against the spine of the carpenters level. If any adjustment needs to be made, I put trash bags under the tire to eliminate the friction between the tire and the ground. Not saying it's perfect, but it's very accurate. I have setup many cars this way and it's really fast.

taken19

Great info guys!!! When I get some consecutive days off I will attempt to check thrust so see what and how much I have changed things with my adjustments so far.

Falcon

Yea, I've got 2 shops that do it for me.

One belongs to a guy who races and hangs out at a race shop near me, and he'll dial in whatever setting I give him. I'm in there with him as he adjusts everything. I paid him $75 last time he aligned it, and that included changing an inner tie rod.

Another shop is across the street from our business. We buy all of our company vehicle stuff from him, so he's always helpful when I ask for anything from aligning or tie mounting. I'm in there with him when we align anything and he only charges me $45. Like the other shop, he'll dial in whatever I want.

I compare the settings of one shop to the other and they're right on.

The hardest part of using these shops is loading and unloading the car from the enclosed trailer.

Bill Dearborn

I have been warm the last couple of days. Spent them in Palm Desert, CA. Temps were in the 80s yesterday and today. Today the wife and I toured Joshua Tree National Park and rode the Palm Springs Aerial Tramway up to 8500 ft where it was about 40 degrees cooler.

Bill