rithsleeper

Buddy and me are ready to take the plunge and get our competition licence. We have done autox, and some hpde/pdx events. He drives a z3 and im in my 89 6-speed vette. We need a fully functional race legal car to get the license. Everyone we have talked to says the same thing. Buy an already prepped car. Save yourself the time.

Here is the thing, I believe them, but I have a lot of time this summer (im a teacher so have 3 months to myself). Money is in very short supply from both of us (he is 3rd year med school). I have a massive garrage, tons of tools, I do every piece of work on my own cars and this is my 3rd c4.

What is so hard about race prepping a car? Besides stripping the inside, building the cage (I would get someone to do this for me), wiring in some cut off switches to fuel, ign, etc, getting some safety harnesses and seat, what is the big deal?

He is seeing cars ie this dodge neon prepped with 3 sets of rims for 4k?! A f#%$ing front wheel drive pos? I don't need another vette, but to me I could get a 80s c4 in good driving condition and poor cosmetic for 3k, and make the race car for just over that. And wouldn't have a neon to start.

What am I missing? we reallly want a miata eventually since our region is very competitive in this class.

Sidney004

That's a 23 year old car. There are a lot of parts that are worn out or on the verge of being worn out.

travisnd

I tend to agree with you. I think most people who say this are comparing buying a built car to paying to have a race car built. Or looking at the costs of building the street car they bought new into a race car.

If you buy the car used/depreciated and do you own work you can come out ahead of buying a used race car. Furthermore, any used race car is going to need a certain amount of prep re-work etc.

I bought my Z06 specifically to build into a race car. Bought the car for $14k sold all the stuff I didn't need and built it into a competitive TTA/PTA car for under $30k total including spares and consumables. At the time a used T1 car was low-mid 30s and I don't fit so well in their cages to begin with.

Rednels

A C4 is not a bad option to race, obviously I am a little biased because I race one. They are a lot tougher and cheaper (part wise) than C5's, but they aren't as good of a platform.

That said, it's always cheaper to buy a built race car and let someone else eat the cost of prepping a race car.

Here are a few items and aprox cost for you to think about getting it "race ready"

1. roll cage = $2000 or more if done well.
2. seat = $500 on the cheap side.
3. harness = $150 on the cheap side.
4. fire system = 500
5. fuel cell = $1000 or up
6. window net and driver net = $100

those are just the required safety items and you don't want to half *** them.

There is also the issue of bearings, brakes, bushings, and your oiling system. On an old car these need to be replaced. Also, I would recommend a canton road racing oil pan and a accusump oil accumulator if you don't want to blow up your motor.

Road racing is a lot more demanding on cars than auto-x because of the much longer run times. Once you get a decent amount of time on the track your car's inadequacies will become clear.

I still think that the C4 is one of the best bang for your bucks. You should be able to find a race ready C4 for around 12-14k. That might be a better option than building your own.


Just my $.02....

travisnd

There's a nice PTA one for sale right now in this forum.

rithsleeper

Well I guess that answers my question. I think that is still way out of my price range. I will have about 4grand by summer and my buddy will split any car we need to buy. We just want something to start and then sell once we are done licensing and race a couple of times. So after license, its looking like we are in the 4 to 6k car shopping territory.

I think the little car engines would hold up better to the oil temps betterr than the vette. I know I hit 280 pretty quick

Thanks for the advice

ScaryFast

This is an often debated topic and it comes down to a few factors - time, money, and luck.

The most important one to most of us is money. At the end of the day, you'll probably have the same money into the car whether you buy one or build one. So IMO that's a wash.

If you build one, you know what's in it, and if it's a car you've had for awhile, you know what is new and what will need to be replaced. You also know if the car was wrecked, how stout the motor is, and the quality of the workmanship. But it's going to be a lot more than you think to convert it, if you work on your own cars you already know this.

If you buy one, it comes down to luck. The seller could be Mr. Fulldisclosure himself, and the car is exactly as described with all the bonuses and deficiencies listed in the ad. Or you could get a dud, with a rod-knocking engine and missing half the things promised in the ad. You could be buying someone else's gem, or someone else's problems. There have been a lot of good transactions here on the forum lately, but you won't have to look very far to find a few gone bad, either...

I personally have experience with both of these scenarios in a C4 - built one and bought one. Both had their share of good and bad points. At the end of the day, it was a wash.

If you really want to do the project yourself because you will have the time and enjoy it, then that's the ticket. But I doubt you'll end up saving any money, you just lower your risk.

Canam

I'm with Rednels on this. I have a C4 racecar I could have built myself but I didn't. There's no way I could have built what I have for what I wanted to spend.
No one makes money on race cars. Buy one someone else built. It will be for a fraction of the cost he paid. A really good cage costs 3 to 4k alone.

Then start to build your Miata. Have fun at that. When its done sell the vette and recup some of your costs. Meanwhile have fun with the vette. You may be surprised. Vettes are just Miatas on steroids. Yes they do handle that well.

Rednels

That's true, a well built C4 will run circles around a Miata. The good thing about a C4 is that it can be made to handle really well for around $500 bucks....for lowering kit and some seriously valved Bilsteins....ask me how I know

My dad is going to race an 87 C4 and with when it's all said and done, he has 13k in the car and it will run 1:38-1:40 at RA with a better driver no offense Dad......lol

Carolina C4 Racer

I know a guy that has a 90 Model, thats for sale. He is in Columbia SC.
6 point cage, Canton oil pan & accusump, 383 stroker motor, 2 sets of CCW wheels, plus lots of extra parts. He is asking 10K. If you interested in his contact info, call me.
Anthony
864 313-6626

rithsleeper

10k is still out of my range. Like I said not really stuck on racing a c4: that would be something I would move to later. My 89 is a great hpde. C5 brakes, ported plenum, high flow manifold, etc. But I just need to have something to get my feet on the ground and to take my licensing tests. I've seen some rx7s going for the 4k range. At least I would keep my rear wheel drive.

Hopefully one day move to the c4. Thanks for all the help guys. This answers a lot of questions and huntches I've been having.

AU N EGL

then trailer and pick uptruck , plus spare wheels and tires.

Road Race cars for sale: http://www.racingjunk.com/category/4...cing-Cars.html

94 Spec Miata $6500

http://www.racingjunk.com/NASA-Spec-...pec-Miata.html

92 Camaro Z28 CMC $6500

http://www.racingjunk.com/NASA-Camar...y-to-Race.html

Black89Z51

I'm almost done building my track only C4. I've got in the vicinity of over $14k in just prepping it, not including the cost of the car. And that's doing absolutely everything myself except the machine work to the block and heads. And that's mostly stock motor rebuild except pistons (one was broken) and a cam. I built the cage myself and welded it myself as well.

I still don't have a fuel cell, transponder, or fire system installed yet. That's another $2k right there.

Kubs

I have about that into mine as well and I still need to do a cage and get some good shocks. It would have been wayyy easier to buy a prepped one and a lot cheaper. If I lived in TX I would be snatching up that CMC car!

Jason

You can get a full rolling NASCAR chassis for like $3k:

http://www.racingjunk.com/GT/2410723...nte-Carlo.html

Drop in a motor and trans and you have a cheap, easy, safe car that is impossible to kill.

gmccreary

I bet you could kill it

TRACKMAN2

only the engine

Aardwolf

What are you guys spending 14k on? I'm pretty sure I was ahead in funds from selling all the parts I took off, till the stock short block went.

The biggest investment in my experience is time. There is a lot to do! There are tons of parts to strip and sell. There is a ton of setup/development time to do. Learn what works and what doesn't, test and tune. Change something and you'll be redoing the cooling system for example.

Black89Z51

Engine rebuild + parts to switch to carb = ~$4k
Suspension - $1300
Autopower Cage - $600
60 ft of 1 3/4" tube for NASCAR door bars - $600
Seat - $900
Steering Wheel - $150
Steering wheel adapter - $75
Wheels - $550
Tires - $900
Radiator - $600
A/C Delete - $120
Painless Wiring harness and switch panel - $350
Gauges - $500
DBA Rotors - $250
EBC Pads - $140
Turn One R&P Rebuild and PS Pump mod - $580
Carbon Fiber Hood - $1000 (Paint was $200 on top of that, just because a good friend of mine has a paint shop)
Sealed Battery Box - $120
MSD 6AL - $130
Moog Upper and lower ball joints and tie rod ends - $520
Oil Cooler w/ lines and fitting and filter relocation - $600

That's just the major stuff I can think of off the top of my head. Not to mention misc small items. I honestly think I'm lowballing the motor price from carb to oil pan. It's probably closer to $4500-5000.

I built the car with safety in mind first, and reliability second. Speed will come later down the road.

I didn't include any tools that I've bought either like a tubing bender and dies, Phoenix injection bleeder....etc.

Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?

Bill32

Not mentioned yet, if you're going to build, you need to get the rule book for the organization you plan to race with NASA,SCCA, whatever.

The last thing you want to happen is to have a "race ready" car that won't pass tech.