"Revised" NASA ST rules are out!
03-01-2012, 06:35 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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"Revised" NASA ST rules are out!
NASA has come out with the newest version of it's ST rules today.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=55321
So nothing about using the frame rails as brake ducts - obviously not legal in ST but no mention of a modification factor for them.
Jacking posts are legal - kinda a no brainer, and side exhaust gets you with a .4 modifier.
I guess we will have to wait and see about the brake duct frame rails.
Mod factor or STR only?
And a special note for you "wooden floor" types-
Discuss 
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=55321
1) ST1 and ST2 only (not applicable for STR1 and STR2): Every vehicle must retain its
unmodified: OEM frame rails and/or unibody, strut towers, floor pan, inner fender
wells, transmission tunnel, rocker panels, windshield frame location, and subframes,
with the following exceptions: a) Frame rails and unibodies may have maximum
diameter 0.75 (3/4) inch holes drilled into them for purposes other than lightening,
such as for the attachment of ancillary parts. Cutting and channeling is not permitted.
b) Frame rails may have maximum diameter 1.25 (1-1/4) inch holes drilled solely for
the purpose of the placement of jacking lugs/plates. c) Modification of the OEM roof
line is permitted, but will be assessed via a Modification Factor in the “Adjusted”
Weight/Power Ratio. d) Modification of the floor pan for purposes of exhaust
clearance only is permitted and will be assessed via a Modification Factor in the
“Adjusted” Weight/Power Ratio. e) Additional permitted floor pan modifications are
listed in Appendix A. Floorpan modifications to include items such as subframe
connectors, roll cage bracing, and fuel cell placement may be approved on a case-bycase
basis by the National ST Director. Such modifications will be subject to approval
and possible Modification Factor assessments.
Tube-frame chassis conversion (partial or complete) is not permitted without a waiver
from the National ST Director. If a vehicle cannot be driven with any of the added
tubes removed, it is considered a tube-frame chassis convertion. Relocation of
suspension mounting points, and modified crossmembers are permitted. Modification
and/or relocation of components of the firewall with engine relocation ten (10) inches
or less is permitted, but is limited by the requirement to retain the unmodified
transmission tunnel and floor pan.
unmodified: OEM frame rails and/or unibody, strut towers, floor pan, inner fender
wells, transmission tunnel, rocker panels, windshield frame location, and subframes,
with the following exceptions: a) Frame rails and unibodies may have maximum
diameter 0.75 (3/4) inch holes drilled into them for purposes other than lightening,
such as for the attachment of ancillary parts. Cutting and channeling is not permitted.
b) Frame rails may have maximum diameter 1.25 (1-1/4) inch holes drilled solely for
the purpose of the placement of jacking lugs/plates. c) Modification of the OEM roof
line is permitted, but will be assessed via a Modification Factor in the “Adjusted”
Weight/Power Ratio. d) Modification of the floor pan for purposes of exhaust
clearance only is permitted and will be assessed via a Modification Factor in the
“Adjusted” Weight/Power Ratio. e) Additional permitted floor pan modifications are
listed in Appendix A. Floorpan modifications to include items such as subframe
connectors, roll cage bracing, and fuel cell placement may be approved on a case-bycase
basis by the National ST Director. Such modifications will be subject to approval
and possible Modification Factor assessments.
Tube-frame chassis conversion (partial or complete) is not permitted without a waiver
from the National ST Director. If a vehicle cannot be driven with any of the added
tubes removed, it is considered a tube-frame chassis convertion. Relocation of
suspension mounting points, and modified crossmembers are permitted. Modification
and/or relocation of components of the firewall with engine relocation ten (10) inches
or less is permitted, but is limited by the requirement to retain the unmodified
transmission tunnel and floor pan.
Body Type: 4-door Sedan or 5-door Wagon = +0.4
Modification of the OEM roof line/shape = -0.4
Modification of the floor pan for exhaust clearance only = -0.4
Modification of the OEM roof line/shape = -0.4
Modification of the floor pan for exhaust clearance only = -0.4
Jacking posts are legal - kinda a no brainer, and side exhaust gets you with a .4 modifier.
I guess we will have to wait and see about the brake duct frame rails.
Mod factor or STR only?
And a special note for you "wooden floor" types-
3) Vehicles with OEM wood floors may have the wood removed and substitute metal flooring in
the same location as the OEM wood floors with an additional Modification Factor of -0.2. It is
12
not permitted to raise or lower the floor from the OEM height compared to the rest of the
body/chassis. If the wood flooring is left intact, metal plating may be placed over the wood,
inside the cockpit, without an additional Modification Factor.
the same location as the OEM wood floors with an additional Modification Factor of -0.2. It is
12
not permitted to raise or lower the floor from the OEM height compared to the rest of the
body/chassis. If the wood flooring is left intact, metal plating may be placed over the wood,
inside the cockpit, without an additional Modification Factor.
03-01-2012, 08:07 PM
#2
I'm curious - how do you relocate your engine 10 inches without modifying floor pan or transmission tunnel? 
Maybe Greg knows something about engineering that rest of us don't?
Looks like STR will get more entries and instead of having 6 cars running in ST2 we will have 3 in ST2 and 3 in STR2. Great call....
Maybe Greg knows something about engineering that rest of us don't? Looks like STR will get more entries and instead of having 6 cars running in ST2 we will have 3 in ST2 and 3 in STR2. Great call....
03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
#5
Race Director
I'm wondering about the OEM Roofline issue. Does this make my El-Corvette-Amino Convertible take a points hit, or do I just call it a corvette convertible?
I also wonder about the floor issue. Does modifying the top layer alone, for seat/headroom issues count, or only if you cut completely through it??
None of these issues really makes sense, they aren't performance enhancers and don't help anything in classes where power is restricted, and aero is open.
I also wonder about the floor issue. Does modifying the top layer alone, for seat/headroom issues count, or only if you cut completely through it??
None of these issues really makes sense, they aren't performance enhancers and don't help anything in classes where power is restricted, and aero is open.
03-01-2012, 10:23 PM
#6
Safety Car
Kind of stupid... what happened to KISS? People what competition and STR just dilutes it. The classes aren't advanced enough to need to be split. Once we have 10+ regularly in ST and someone brings out a tube chassis car on the regular and wipes the floor with everyone then we can worry about a separate STR class. Just my $0.02.
03-01-2012, 10:24 PM
#7
Safety Car
I'm wondering about the OEM Roofline issue. Does this make my El-Corvette-Amino Convertible take a points hit, or do I just call it a corvette convertible?
I also wonder about the floor issue. Does modifying the top layer alone, for seat/headroom issues count, or only if you cut completely through it??
None of these issues really makes sense, they aren't performance enhancers and don't help anything in classes where power is restricted, and aero is open.
I also wonder about the floor issue. Does modifying the top layer alone, for seat/headroom issues count, or only if you cut completely through it??
None of these issues really makes sense, they aren't performance enhancers and don't help anything in classes where power is restricted, and aero is open.
I emailed Greg and got a waiver to cut the top layer of my floor out to lower the seat. I have to keep a copy of his email approval with my log book and hand one in with any classification form.
03-01-2012, 10:42 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Kind of stupid... what happened to KISS? People what competition and STR just dilutes it. The classes aren't advanced enough to need to be split. Once we have 10+ regularly in ST and someone brings out a tube chassis car on the regular and wipes the floor with everyone then we can worry about a separate STR class. Just my $0.02.
03-01-2012, 10:58 PM
#11
Safety Car
I do 
IMO the "inner fender well" as described in the rules != the plastic rear wheel well liner. However, I guess this means you can't vent the front ones to let air out of the wheel well through a vented hood like the ACP with the side vents i.e. how John Shiels has his car.
Maybe this stuff was thought up with metal cars in mind vs. our cars with composite inner fenders and rear tubs.
IMO the "inner fender well" as described in the rules != the plastic rear wheel well liner. However, I guess this means you can't vent the front ones to let air out of the wheel well through a vented hood like the ACP with the side vents i.e. how John Shiels has his car.
Maybe this stuff was thought up with metal cars in mind vs. our cars with composite inner fenders and rear tubs.
Last edited by travisnd; 03-01-2012 at 11:01 PM.
03-02-2012, 07:06 AM
#16
Well, it's a 1991 model that ran 195/14 tires all around - inner wells are modified to run a 10 inch wide tire. My front and rear subframes are slightly modified - nothing crazy, but they are 20 year old technology - this might be something Greg would make an exception on, although after these rule changes I'm guessing he's trying to draw a line in the sand.
I just bought an LS motor to swap in and was going to have it moved about 4 inches back - otherwise 80% of it sits forward of the front subframe. We actually figured out a way to do it without touching the floor pan - just firewall and transmission tunnel - clearly that's out the window as well.
Anyways, I bought the car cause I love the body style and it is something completely different. Now I have to be running against tube frame cars? I don't think so. Just need to figure out if I want to sell the car and look for something else or find another place to run. I will never understand what happened here - they put together a fun, well attended class with good competition. Suddenly there is rule creep and car counts are going down like crazy - between the first 3 events here (Southeast and Mid Atlantic) we've yet to have more than 3 cars in ST2. There are 7 in ST1 for RA this weekend, but I wonder if all of them are legal given the new rule changes.
I just bought an LS motor to swap in and was going to have it moved about 4 inches back - otherwise 80% of it sits forward of the front subframe. We actually figured out a way to do it without touching the floor pan - just firewall and transmission tunnel - clearly that's out the window as well.
Anyways, I bought the car cause I love the body style and it is something completely different. Now I have to be running against tube frame cars? I don't think so. Just need to figure out if I want to sell the car and look for something else or find another place to run. I will never understand what happened here - they put together a fun, well attended class with good competition. Suddenly there is rule creep and car counts are going down like crazy - between the first 3 events here (Southeast and Mid Atlantic) we've yet to have more than 3 cars in ST2. There are 7 in ST1 for RA this weekend, but I wonder if all of them are legal given the new rule changes.
03-02-2012, 07:45 AM
#18
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Anyways, I bought the car cause I love the body style and it is something completely different. Now I have to be running against tube frame cars? I don't think so. Just need to figure out if I want to sell the car and look for something else or find another place to run. I will never understand what happened here - they put together a fun, well attended class with good competition. Suddenly there is rule creep and car counts are going down like crazy - between the first 3 events here (Southeast and Mid Atlantic) we've yet to have more than 3 cars in ST2. There are 7 in ST1 for RA this weekend, but I wonder if all of them are legal given the new rule changes.
FYI STR2 cars are about 2 seconds a lap slower than ST-2, we have not seen a STR2 car that was extremely fast yet.
Normally we have 2-5 ST2 cars and 2-5 STR2 cars on any given weekend in the Mid West/ Great Lakes so now it will be 1 ST2 car and 4-6 STR2 cars. The STR2 guys would cry when I ran with them actually at Putnam a couple years back they had 4 STR2 cars so I joined to be the 5th, they all wined to the Race Director and ended up running for fun so it was just me in STR2...now most of us won't have a choice.
BTW in 2009 I was both the ST2 and STR2 National Champion so there is no need to think STR2 is any faster than ST2, if you are competitive in one you will be in both.
I'm not ST2 legal either right noweither, my inner fenders are worn through, not really looking to spent $$$ to replace those.
03-02-2012, 08:22 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Agreed - we had some great momentum in this class and I really felt 2012 was going to build on that. This apprears to be sending us in the wrong direction.
03-02-2012, 09:15 AM
#20
Le Mans Master
Almost every C5 Vette that has spent any time on the track, especially racing, has sheet metal splinted somewhere on/in the inner fenders. There are 4 distinct parts of the C5 front inner fender. The blockout panels in the front inner fender is the 1st to go. Here's what I'm talking about:
I wonder if the inner fender rule means viewed from the engine compartment or from inside the wheel well?
I agree with John B. NASA is picking the wrong battles. Untold thousands can be spent in unlimited aero, thousands on shocks and suspension, thousands again on carbon fiber pieces, but they pick brake ducts and inner fenders as the battleground?
Damn, these are race cars with fabricated body pieces, both seen and unseen. WTF?
I started racing in ST2 the very first year is was created, and I was its biggest fan. I did it because it was simple, 8.7 to 1 and go at it. It was fantastic. I chose NASA and this class because, unlike SCCA T1, it was so simple even I could do it. Now unneeded rules creep is making it harder to justify in my mind.
I wonder if the inner fender rule means viewed from the engine compartment or from inside the wheel well?
I agree with John B. NASA is picking the wrong battles. Untold thousands can be spent in unlimited aero, thousands on shocks and suspension, thousands again on carbon fiber pieces, but they pick brake ducts and inner fenders as the battleground?
Damn, these are race cars with fabricated body pieces, both seen and unseen. WTF?I started racing in ST2 the very first year is was created, and I was its biggest fan. I did it because it was simple, 8.7 to 1 and go at it. It was fantastic. I chose NASA and this class because, unlike SCCA T1, it was so simple even I could do it. Now unneeded rules creep is making it harder to justify in my mind.
Last edited by Falcon; 03-02-2012 at 09:44 AM.