Representing'
03-21-2012, 01:42 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Representing'
The marque was well represented the last two days at VIR by an awesome looking grey ZR-1 during the Ferrari Club of America -SE Region's annual event. Wish I had pics to share but I was too busy to take any. I had some great students in a Lamborghini Gallardo LP550 (RWD) and a Ferrari 458 Italia. Hey, it's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it 
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the upcoming NCM event at VIR!
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the upcoming NCM event at VIR!
03-21-2012, 10:34 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
The marque was well represented the last two days at VIR by an awesome looking grey ZR-1 during the Ferrari Club of America -SE Region's annual event. Wish I had pics to share but I was too busy to take any. I had some great students in a Lamborghini Gallardo LP550 (RWD) and a Ferrari 458 Italia. Hey, it's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the upcoming NCM event at VIR!
Looking forward to seeing everyone at the upcoming NCM event at VIR!
How did the ZR1 fair against the crowd and how was the 458?
03-21-2012, 02:38 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The ZR1 was stupid-fast as always. It and its driver definitely hung with others on the track (just as much or more a function of the driver.) The 458 brings strong competition, in that it's handling is a bit better and it feels more like a track car. This is almost like comparing a Z06 to a ZR1... is the ZR1 faster overall - especially in the straights? Absolutely. Does the Z06 feel more predictable, confident and planted overall while on track? Absolutely.
The difference between Corvettes and Ferraris are generally expressed in feel. I usually explain it like this: while the Corvette can undoubtedly stay tit-for-tat on track with most F-cars, the Ferraris just communicate more/better. You can feel the passion that went into designing and building the Ferrari, where the Corvette feels more like an assembly-line, high production number car. While this is hard to quantify without 'feeling' both cars, it's the most efficient way I know to explain it.
A more quantifiable example would be that Corvettes have mostly been plagued by a somewhat slow and numb off-center steering (both execution and feel) and while not 'slow' to respond, they aren't instantaneous. Yet the 458 borders on 'twitchy' it is so super-responsive (esp. in "Race" mode.) With the sheer power and high-strung nature of the 458, it is more complex to drive and demands more attention and respect. The Corvette is easier to drive on track in any model/package.
From a performance standpoint, the ZR1 and 458 are close - the 458 taking a clear edge. This is where the better handling comes into play. Does it justify the difference in price? I guess that depends on your goals and the size of your bank account. I'll take either without complaint.
As a slight diversion, I have to say that the car I drove that most impressed me was the Lamborghini Gallardo LP550. This is the rear-wheel-drive version, not an AWD configuration. While I like Lambo's, and the Gallardo is a FANTASTIC looking and sounding car, all the AWD versions I've driven have been annoying due to the car's brain 'hunting' for where to place the power coming out of turns - even when no adjustment is being made to steering angle or throttle position. (Incidentally, I have never found this to be an issue in the Audi R8 sister to the Gallardo...) The LP550 was an absolute joy to drive! It felt stable, predictable, and was also STUPID-FAST!!! 1/2 throttle out of Oak Tree would easily see 150+ MPH well before the crest in the back straight. Full throttle with a good run out would likely be 30MPH North of that. I casually used some WOT on one lap and then backed out at 165 as it was not my car... no sense in taking chances, even if the machine wasn't even breathing hard. (My 7/10s rule when in someone else's car.)
Could I post quicker lap times in the 458? Probably due to more seat time in those cars (my first time in a RWD Gallardo)... but the Lambo sure was FUN to drive!! And the sound... uh! Awesome!!
OK, I've gotten all long-winded...as usual. I could talk about this stuff all day but I have got to get some 'real work' done. LOL
Cheers,
C
The difference between Corvettes and Ferraris are generally expressed in feel. I usually explain it like this: while the Corvette can undoubtedly stay tit-for-tat on track with most F-cars, the Ferraris just communicate more/better. You can feel the passion that went into designing and building the Ferrari, where the Corvette feels more like an assembly-line, high production number car. While this is hard to quantify without 'feeling' both cars, it's the most efficient way I know to explain it.
A more quantifiable example would be that Corvettes have mostly been plagued by a somewhat slow and numb off-center steering (both execution and feel) and while not 'slow' to respond, they aren't instantaneous. Yet the 458 borders on 'twitchy' it is so super-responsive (esp. in "Race" mode.) With the sheer power and high-strung nature of the 458, it is more complex to drive and demands more attention and respect. The Corvette is easier to drive on track in any model/package.
From a performance standpoint, the ZR1 and 458 are close - the 458 taking a clear edge. This is where the better handling comes into play. Does it justify the difference in price? I guess that depends on your goals and the size of your bank account. I'll take either without complaint.
As a slight diversion, I have to say that the car I drove that most impressed me was the Lamborghini Gallardo LP550. This is the rear-wheel-drive version, not an AWD configuration. While I like Lambo's, and the Gallardo is a FANTASTIC looking and sounding car, all the AWD versions I've driven have been annoying due to the car's brain 'hunting' for where to place the power coming out of turns - even when no adjustment is being made to steering angle or throttle position. (Incidentally, I have never found this to be an issue in the Audi R8 sister to the Gallardo...) The LP550 was an absolute joy to drive! It felt stable, predictable, and was also STUPID-FAST!!! 1/2 throttle out of Oak Tree would easily see 150+ MPH well before the crest in the back straight. Full throttle with a good run out would likely be 30MPH North of that. I casually used some WOT on one lap and then backed out at 165 as it was not my car... no sense in taking chances, even if the machine wasn't even breathing hard. (My 7/10s rule when in someone else's car.)
Could I post quicker lap times in the 458? Probably due to more seat time in those cars (my first time in a RWD Gallardo)... but the Lambo sure was FUN to drive!! And the sound... uh! Awesome!!
OK, I've gotten all long-winded...as usual. I could talk about this stuff all day but I have got to get some 'real work' done. LOL
Cheers,
C
03-21-2012, 03:04 PM
#5
Race Director
Hi Chuck
Thanks for the info!!
Peter (whatcop?) was wondering because he has a ZR1 and a 458!!!!!!!!!!!!
(well....dad has the 458 at home in Daytona).
Here's that view of your tail-end at VIR a couple years ago. I was only able to sorta hang with you because of your 7/10s rule - otherwise you would have been a dot way up ahead!!!
C'ya in June!!!
Bob
Below I'm trying to keep up with Chuck to learn something by watching his line around VIR at the NCM event in 2009 - Chuck was taking it easy in a forum member's car:
Thanks for the info!!
Peter (whatcop?) was wondering because he has a ZR1 and a 458!!!!!!!!!!!!
(well....dad has the 458 at home in Daytona).Here's that view of your tail-end at VIR a couple years ago. I was only able to sorta hang with you because of your 7/10s rule - otherwise you would have been a dot way up ahead!!!
C'ya in June!!!
Bob
Below I'm trying to keep up with Chuck to learn something by watching his line around VIR at the NCM event in 2009 - Chuck was taking it easy in a forum member's car:
03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
On the one lap where I didn't have traffic, I noticed that I missed the apex of 6 by a foot! Oops... [blush]
Another reason why video and data are such good tools! They definitely don't lie
Cheers,
C
03-22-2012, 08:33 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
The ZR1 was stupid-fast as always. It and its driver definitely hung with others on the track (just as much or more a function of the driver.) The 458 brings strong competition, in that it's handling is a bit better and it feels more like a track car. This is almost like comparing a Z06 to a ZR1... is the ZR1 faster overall - especially in the straights? Absolutely. Does the Z06 feel more predictable, confident and planted overall while on track? Absolutely.
The difference between Corvettes and Ferraris are generally expressed in feel. I usually explain it like this: while the Corvette can undoubtedly stay tit-for-tat on track with most F-cars, the Ferraris just communicate more/better. You can feel the passion that went into designing and building the Ferrari, where the Corvette feels more like an assembly-line, high production number car. While this is hard to quantify without 'feeling' both cars, it's the most efficient way I know to explain it.
A more quantifiable example would be that Corvettes have mostly been plagued by a somewhat slow and numb off-center steering (both execution and feel) and while not 'slow' to respond, they aren't instantaneous. Yet the 458 borders on 'twitchy' it is so super-responsive (esp. in "Race" mode.) With the sheer power and high-strung nature of the 458, it is more complex to drive and demands more attention and respect. The Corvette is easier to drive on track in any model/package.
From a performance standpoint, the ZR1 and 458 are close - the 458 taking a clear edge. This is where the better handling comes into play. Does it justify the difference in price? I guess that depends on your goals and the size of your bank account. I'll take either without complaint.
As a slight diversion, I have to say that the car I drove that most impressed me was the Lamborghini Gallardo LP550. This is the rear-wheel-drive version, not an AWD configuration. While I like Lambo's, and the Gallardo is a FANTASTIC looking and sounding car, all the AWD versions I've driven have been annoying due to the car's brain 'hunting' for where to place the power coming out of turns - even when no adjustment is being made to steering angle or throttle position. (Incidentally, I have never found this to be an issue in the Audi R8 sister to the Gallardo...) The LP550 was an absolute joy to drive! It felt stable, predictable, and was also STUPID-FAST!!! 1/2 throttle out of Oak Tree would easily see 150+ MPH well before the crest in the back straight. Full throttle with a good run out would likely be 30MPH North of that. I casually used some WOT on one lap and then backed out at 165 as it was not my car... no sense in taking chances, even if the machine wasn't even breathing hard. (My 7/10s rule when in someone else's car.)
Could I post quicker lap times in the 458? Probably due to more seat time in those cars (my first time in a RWD Gallardo)... but the Lambo sure was FUN to drive!! And the sound... uh! Awesome!!
OK, I've gotten all long-winded...as usual. I could talk about this stuff all day but I have got to get some 'real work' done. LOL
Cheers,
C
The difference between Corvettes and Ferraris are generally expressed in feel. I usually explain it like this: while the Corvette can undoubtedly stay tit-for-tat on track with most F-cars, the Ferraris just communicate more/better. You can feel the passion that went into designing and building the Ferrari, where the Corvette feels more like an assembly-line, high production number car. While this is hard to quantify without 'feeling' both cars, it's the most efficient way I know to explain it.
A more quantifiable example would be that Corvettes have mostly been plagued by a somewhat slow and numb off-center steering (both execution and feel) and while not 'slow' to respond, they aren't instantaneous. Yet the 458 borders on 'twitchy' it is so super-responsive (esp. in "Race" mode.) With the sheer power and high-strung nature of the 458, it is more complex to drive and demands more attention and respect. The Corvette is easier to drive on track in any model/package.
From a performance standpoint, the ZR1 and 458 are close - the 458 taking a clear edge. This is where the better handling comes into play. Does it justify the difference in price? I guess that depends on your goals and the size of your bank account. I'll take either without complaint.
As a slight diversion, I have to say that the car I drove that most impressed me was the Lamborghini Gallardo LP550. This is the rear-wheel-drive version, not an AWD configuration. While I like Lambo's, and the Gallardo is a FANTASTIC looking and sounding car, all the AWD versions I've driven have been annoying due to the car's brain 'hunting' for where to place the power coming out of turns - even when no adjustment is being made to steering angle or throttle position. (Incidentally, I have never found this to be an issue in the Audi R8 sister to the Gallardo...) The LP550 was an absolute joy to drive! It felt stable, predictable, and was also STUPID-FAST!!! 1/2 throttle out of Oak Tree would easily see 150+ MPH well before the crest in the back straight. Full throttle with a good run out would likely be 30MPH North of that. I casually used some WOT on one lap and then backed out at 165 as it was not my car... no sense in taking chances, even if the machine wasn't even breathing hard. (My 7/10s rule when in someone else's car.)
Could I post quicker lap times in the 458? Probably due to more seat time in those cars (my first time in a RWD Gallardo)... but the Lambo sure was FUN to drive!! And the sound... uh! Awesome!!
OK, I've gotten all long-winded...as usual. I could talk about this stuff all day but I have got to get some 'real work' done. LOL
Cheers,
C
Way to rat me out Bob lol. I've driven my dads car a few times on the street and it just doesn't excite me. Makes no sense to cost that much and only perform as well as it does. I definitely think the Z06 is a much much much better option.
03-22-2012, 10:56 AM
#10
Le Mans Master
03-22-2012, 12:28 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I agree. While the ZR1 is stupid fast in a straight line; and its handling is good for the track, the Z06 makes a significantly better/more capable track car. Much more progressive responding in almost every way - making it more track friendly. And even GM has said that the ZR1 is more a statement of power meets luxury, and not meant to be as an aggressive track machine as the Z06. The ZR1 IMHO is a bit out of balance on the power side for its other demands (handling, luxury, comfort, etc.) One of the drawbacks of the 458 is it's less progressive as well, leaving the driver ever-tentative of a time when they might not have been graceful enough with the controls. The Z06 is not a self-correcting car (like a Nissan GT-R) but tolerates instances of "overness" quite well making it easier to drive. Certainly to be respected, just easier mentally and from a timing standpoint. I guess in summary; the Z06 is easier to be smooth with than is the ZR1 and 458. Interestingly, as I mentioned earlier - I found the LP550 easy to be smooth with, which is relatively uncommon of Lamborghini - they like being the top of the power mountain.
I've told countless people (many F-car owners): Give me a Corvette Z06 and a competing F-car (C5 - 360, C6 - 430 usual comparison) with equal tires and you won't see a difference in my lap times. That's not to say the Ferrari is bad, but that the Corvette is that good. Still one of, if not THE best bang-for-buck in the industry. And the 'Vette will get significantly better fuel economy too!
There's no replacing the amazing design, implementation, and fit & finish in the Ferrari compared to the GM product (we're still cheap and plasticy by comparison...) much less that magical smell of the inside of an Italian supercar... But the 'Vette's gotten better inside and what's that smell worth to ya?
I love driving Ferraris and have driven more than I can recall but at the end of the day, I could still buy 2-3 C6 Z06s for the price of the lowest-level Ferrari competitive product (much less what one can obtain a C5 Z06 for these days.) I'll keep driving the best Ferraris: OPF as long as they let me but my personal tool of choice remains the Corvette.
Which, as a last word I'll tell you that most F-Car owners that I know have a very healthy respect for the Corvette and its capabilities. The purchase of a Ferrari is bigger and more emotional than simply what it can do on the track and for many, that's what makes up the price difference.
I've told countless people (many F-car owners): Give me a Corvette Z06 and a competing F-car (C5 - 360, C6 - 430 usual comparison) with equal tires and you won't see a difference in my lap times. That's not to say the Ferrari is bad, but that the Corvette is that good. Still one of, if not THE best bang-for-buck in the industry. And the 'Vette will get significantly better fuel economy too!
There's no replacing the amazing design, implementation, and fit & finish in the Ferrari compared to the GM product (we're still cheap and plasticy by comparison...) much less that magical smell of the inside of an Italian supercar... But the 'Vette's gotten better inside and what's that smell worth to ya?
I love driving Ferraris and have driven more than I can recall but at the end of the day, I could still buy 2-3 C6 Z06s for the price of the lowest-level Ferrari competitive product (much less what one can obtain a C5 Z06 for these days.) I'll keep driving the best Ferraris: OPF as long as they let me but my personal tool of choice remains the Corvette.
Which, as a last word I'll tell you that most F-Car owners that I know have a very healthy respect for the Corvette and its capabilities. The purchase of a Ferrari is bigger and more emotional than simply what it can do on the track and for many, that's what makes up the price difference.
03-22-2012, 08:56 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
I agree. While the ZR1 is stupid fast in a straight line; and its handling is good for the track, the Z06 makes a significantly better/more capable track car. Much more progressive responding in almost every way - making it more track friendly. And even GM has said that the ZR1 is more a statement of power meets luxury, and not meant to be as an aggressive track machine as the Z06. The ZR1 IMHO is a bit out of balance on the power side for its other demands (handling, luxury, comfort, etc.) One of the drawbacks of the 458 is it's less progressive as well, leaving the driver ever-tentative of a time when they might not have been graceful enough with the controls. The Z06 is not a self-correcting car (like a Nissan GT-R) but tolerates instances of "overness" quite well making it easier to drive. Certainly to be respected, just easier mentally and from a timing standpoint. I guess in summary; the Z06 is easier to be smooth with than is the ZR1 and 458. Interestingly, as I mentioned earlier - I found the LP550 easy to be smooth with, which is relatively uncommon of Lamborghini - they like being the top of the power mountain.
I've told countless people (many F-car owners): Give me a Corvette Z06 and a competing F-car (C5 - 360, C6 - 430 usual comparison) with equal tires and you won't see a difference in my lap times. That's not to say the Ferrari is bad, but that the Corvette is that good. Still one of, if not THE best bang-for-buck in the industry. And the 'Vette will get significantly better fuel economy too!
There's no replacing the amazing design, implementation, and fit & finish in the Ferrari compared to the GM product (we're still cheap and plasticy by comparison...) much less that magical smell of the inside of an Italian supercar... But the 'Vette's gotten better inside and what's that smell worth to ya?
I love driving Ferraris and have driven more than I can recall but at the end of the day, I could still buy 2-3 C6 Z06s for the price of the lowest-level Ferrari competitive product (much less what one can obtain a C5 Z06 for these days.) I'll keep driving the best Ferraris: OPF as long as they let me but my personal tool of choice remains the Corvette.
Which, as a last word I'll tell you that most F-Car owners that I know have a very healthy respect for the Corvette and its capabilities. The purchase of a Ferrari is bigger and more emotional than simply what it can do on the track and for many, that's what makes up the price difference.
I've told countless people (many F-car owners): Give me a Corvette Z06 and a competing F-car (C5 - 360, C6 - 430 usual comparison) with equal tires and you won't see a difference in my lap times. That's not to say the Ferrari is bad, but that the Corvette is that good. Still one of, if not THE best bang-for-buck in the industry. And the 'Vette will get significantly better fuel economy too!
There's no replacing the amazing design, implementation, and fit & finish in the Ferrari compared to the GM product (we're still cheap and plasticy by comparison...) much less that magical smell of the inside of an Italian supercar... But the 'Vette's gotten better inside and what's that smell worth to ya?
I love driving Ferraris and have driven more than I can recall but at the end of the day, I could still buy 2-3 C6 Z06s for the price of the lowest-level Ferrari competitive product (much less what one can obtain a C5 Z06 for these days.) I'll keep driving the best Ferraris: OPF as long as they let me but my personal tool of choice remains the Corvette.
Which, as a last word I'll tell you that most F-Car owners that I know have a very healthy respect for the Corvette and its capabilities. The purchase of a Ferrari is bigger and more emotional than simply what it can do on the track and for many, that's what makes up the price difference.
I will die and go to heaven a happy man the day I convince my dad to bring his out to the track
03-23-2012, 10:09 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Sometimes experience is the tipping point.
Cheers,
C
03-23-2012, 11:06 AM
#15
Le Mans Master
Just have him come to VIR with you in June. Maybe even get him signed up in the "taster" group that gets 1 (or more - everyone's always welcome in my classroom sessions) classroom, 1 track session as passenger, 1 as driver.
Sometimes experience is the tipping point.
Cheers,
C
Sometimes experience is the tipping point.
Cheers,
C
03-23-2012, 11:20 AM
#16
Race Director
Hey C,
Hope all finds you well
Hope all finds you well
03-23-2012, 04:57 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks!
Nice to be seen. I don't get any time to spend on forums anymore these days. Just too much traveling going on. I've had to stay home for the past couple of days to nurse maid an ailing wife, so you know where the first place I go is.
Cheers!
C
Nice to be seen. I don't get any time to spend on forums anymore these days. Just too much traveling going on. I've had to stay home for the past couple of days to nurse maid an ailing wife, so you know where the first place I go is.
Cheers!
C