Werks

I just picked up a set of Toyo R888 in 295/30/18 & 335/30/18's for HPDE use on my C6 Z06. As this is my first set of R888'W I'M looking for any feedback or insight that you can give me on cold and hot tire temps and set up's (camber and riothat you found worked s


I tired searching for this but was not able to find any clear answer's. Thanks again

Last C5

I run a C5Z, but all my track buddies have C6Zs and the following works for both.

Front camber 2 1/2
Rear 1 1/2

Front Pressure 33 Cold
Rear Pressure 34 Cold

Aiming for about 40 to 42 track hot.

888s like pressure and will wear out the center if the pressure is not high enough. Yes, I know that's exactly backwards from everything you've ever heard but that's the way 888s work.

jvp

Interesting, that's not been my experience with them at all. I run them at the same temps I do my RA-1s, and they work well and last for quite a while (almost 2 seasons of HPDEs). Also I don't agree with running the rears with more air than the fronts; the Corvette has historically responded better being a bit softer in the rear.

For me, it's cold: 29 front/28 rear.

jas

RDnomorecobra

I agree they like more pressure. Maybe you should average the above to start and modify from there.

Bill Dearborn

I just ran those sizes on my C6Z over the weekend at the Glen. My cold pressures were 28 and 26 and even in 35 to 40 degree ambient temps the hot pressures would get to 45 on the left front 43 on the right front and 34 to 35 on both rear tires. As the fronts started getting over 40 psi the tires became greasy and the car would understeer quite a bit. I couldn't hold the line going into T2 at speed and had to drop a few mph to keep the line. Back tires seemed to act funny under hard braking once the they were warm. On Monday I was running with a GT3 on Hoosiers and after a few laps as I followed him into T1 the back end of the car started swinging back and forth and after that I couldn't keep up with him. Other instructors that had used R888s on their Vettes said keep the hot temps around 37 (definitely below 40) which is similar to the way I ran my Kumho 710s. They also said don't start much lower than I was doing. Sort of puts me in a fix as too low of a cold pressure and the tires are pretty loose until warmed up and with 17 psi gain from 28 I will see even more of a gain from a lower cold setting so will lose out on both ends of a session with the tires being good for just a few laps in the middle. The other guys definitely recommended camber settings of 2 degrees or more.

Bill

Werks

Thanks guys for the feedback so far, please keep it coming as I'm really interested in getting as much feedback as possible and I think that it would be good for those of us using this tire to get an idea of what others are doing also.

From my end I've been doing research on these tires on a lot of different racing forums including Honda, Porsche and the Spec Miata guys. Based on that frankly the set up info for the R888's seems to be all across the board as far as air pressures are concerned! There seem to be 2 camps, the run really high pressure starting with a cold pressure in the mid to upper 30's shooting for a hot temp in the mid 40's and then a start in the low to mid 20's shooting for a hot temp in the low to mid 30's. As far as camber it seems that most agree that the R888 uses less than the RA-1's that it replaced. Because of the stiffer carcass design most seem to be running 2 1/2 to 3 degree's negative on the front with the R888's versus 4+ with the RA-1's. Here is some additional info that I found on one of the tire dealers sites:

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To maximize the performance of the R-888 over the RA-1, on ALL race cars and especially Front wheel drive RACE cars and Spec Miata's: The camber, toe, tire pressure and even the driving technique must be modified to obtain the maximum performance from this all new tire.

HOWEVER, you will find the R-888 will have excellent grip and performance with the SAME settings as you used with the RA-1 tires, IF you car is a rear wheel drive car!

-- Front wheel and all wheel drive cars MUST change the camber/air pressure/toe settings for the R-888!--

But, if you use the original RA-1 settings for your rear wheel drive car you will not see an increase in performance and could see a decrease in tire life over the RA-1 tires.

The R-888 with the stiffer sidewall and softer undertread construction requires a bit less initial camber settings and WE BELIEVE increased (over the Ra-1) starting and 'HOT' tire pressures to provide a longer lasting and more consistent experience.
Or you can run very well with your original camber settings and by simply increasing your STARTING pressure.

A performance gain may be experienced by using low starting pressures in the 24-28lb range. However, if when using this low 'starting pressure' you experience a tire that is good for only 3-4 laps and it then falls off it is highly recommended to begin and end with a much higher pressure.
Most Spec Miata's and E-30 series cars have found success by starting with 38-40lbs of air pressure and ending with 43-47lbs of air pressure!

This will be hard for you to believe, but the higher hot or ending tire pressure WILL provide you with BETTER tire wear.
Yes, yes I know this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But, just TRY IT! And you'll see what I mean.

====================================== TOYO MOTORSPORTS - CANADA SUGGESTIONS:

VEHICLE WEIGHT.............STARTING PRESS...........HOT
_____less than 1776 lbs.......... 17-22psi........... 22-29psi
_________1776-2220 lbs.......... 20-26psi........... 24-32psi
_________2220-3109 lbs.......... 23-27psi........... 28-40psi
_________over 3109 lbs.......... 27-35psi........... 37-42psi

The correct initial (Cold or starting) air pressure is critical to achieve an optimum contact patch shape. Optimum starting pressures are determined by the TRACK, EVENT DISTANCE, CHASSIS TYPE AND SETUP, CHASSIS WEIGHT and DRIVING STYLE. So, the above pressure chart is RECOMMENDATIONS ONLY!

** Canada finds an increase in pressure from starting to hot of 10-12 lbs acceptable. Howeveer, it has been our experience that if the pressure should increase more than 10 lbs from start to hot one should start with a higher pressure. We've found that a 8 to 10 lb. increase from starting to hot pressure is best.

OPTIMAL OPERATING TEMPERATURE
194F to 230F
176F is minimum, 194F-230F is optimum, 284F is maximum so says TOYO Canada! So you're not even in the operational range people.
***********

Z06trackman

I have always used a probe type tire temp gauge, checking at the inner, outer, and center tread blocks, ASAP after a few hot laps, to determine proper cold pressures, and chamber settings for max tire life. I do this because my car, track, and driving style may be different from others.

I just took delivery of my first R888s and I don't yet have data, but for my RA1s, front 30 psi and 1.8 degrees, rear 27 psi and 1 degree, provided most even temps and a good handling stock C5Z on the road course. Higher temps on the inside, more chamber, may yield a faster lap time. Oh, I use nitrogen.

Werks

Z06trackman, interesting that you are using nitrogen.

Bill Dearborn you might want to take a look at using this also as a possible method to solve the fix you were talking about. Nitrogen should reduce the large gain in PSI that you are seeing from cold to hot possibly allowing you to narrow down the window a bit so that you can find the correct temps for you. One thing that I also did find in all of the reading that I did is that with the stiffer sidewalls of the R888 they generate more grip at lower slip angles than the older RA-1's. So if you are used to sliding the rear of the car around a bit this might be what is contributing to them overheating and starting to feel greasy.

Werks

Jas, if I'm not mistaken you are running the 888's on a ZR1 which is almost the same as my carbon edition z06. Can you let me know what your alignment settings are? Also are you running aftermarket sway bars or springs? Lastly what hot temps are you seeing starting at 29 f/28 r?

magnoman

Guys , I did two track days w/ r888's awesome tire .. i was concerned about tire pressure then someone showed me the markers that are on the tires that will tell you if your TP is correct for the tire roll ..
There are small triangles on the side of the tires that should just be touching where you see that edge of the tire is wearing .. if the tire wear line is at the tip of the markers then you ok..
if not adjust tire pressure to get it close ..

Werks

So what did you settle on as far as cold and hot temps for your set up?

Bill Dearborn

I do know that the lower the pressure the hotter the tire gets due to increased flexing and the increased temp causes a larger pressure gain from cold to hot.

I think the first thing I will try is starting at a higher pressure. The info above indicates the pressure gain may be reduced since the tire will not get as hot and that would keep the tire from getting greasy.

I will be at the track for 3 days starting tomorrow so will start with cold pressures of 33 front and 30 rear which is what I used to run my R1s at back in the days I ran my 86.

Bill

rbl

I would start the rears at 32-33 as well. I started mine at 32 on all 4 (C6) when it was warm and 34 when it was early and a cool track. I liked to end up at 40-41 HOT.

Werks

Hi Bill here is some more info that i ran across about the R888's from a long time racing tire dealer regarding tire pressures. Based on this shooting for your old R1 tire pressures might be way to low! If you have a chance during your 3 day outing you might want to give the below a shot for a session and see what your thoughts are. Please let us know what your findings are this weekend and here is the info:

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Ok, here's the deal on the R-888's.

I'd advise you one and all to TRY the suggestions I will make and then make a decision as to the speed and durabilty of the R-888 Vs the Ra-1 AFTER you try these new ideas.

But only AFTER you try the new settings.

A bit of History:
I first experienced excessive wear and bad handling of the R888 at the 2007 NASA 25 hour race on Mike Quan's Honda Civic with Roger Foo at the wheel.

Great team, excellent drivers. They came down in the middle of the night to ask if I could look at a tire issue they were having. Seems that TOYO had given them some new 888's to 'try' in the 25 hour race. First off, during a race is the WRONG time to try anything NEW. Let alone sort out a new tire. But, it was what it was and these things happen.

The issue was the car was pushing (front wheel drive car) and was wearing out the centers of the tires at an alarming rate. Well, one look at the worn centers and I suggested LOWERING the pressure. We did. And they began to wear out QUICKER and the handling became worse! It made no sense to me whatsoever.

Fortunately the team had enough RA-1's to complete the race and never put the R-888's back on the car. But, that adjustment in air pressure SHOULD HAVE worked. It had for years on all types of tires. But it didn't and it stuck in my mind over the winter.

The start of the 2008 season:
In the NASA races the BMW E-30 class cars were allowed to run either the RA-1 or the R-888 until June of 2008. Most jumped to the R-888 right away.

But that deal about the tire wearing out quickly in the middle still bugged me. So, I kept an eye on them.

Early on I asked Donny Edwards to allow us to 'try' something on his E-30. At Thunderhill we sent Donny out at 40 lbs STARTING pressure! He had already raced on them with the normal RA-1 starting pressure of 32 lbs, ending at 40lbs hot and was doing well. But, now I was asking him to START at 40 lbs.

His comment after coming off the track was that the car felt more stable and quicker. His times proved that he was correct. We kept an eye on Donny's car during the year and asked if he was getting any excessive wear. Donny's comment was that the car was used not only for the E-30 practice, qualifying and races but for every available session during the weekend. And no, they didn't wear quicker.

With this knowledge I then asked a HPDE driver, another trusted friend, if he would go out at 40lbs cold in his Porsche All wheel drive 911 Turbo. The thing weights a ton! He had already been out for 2 sessions at the lower RA-1 pressure setting on his new R-888's and LOVED the tires. Now, I was asking him to go out at a starting pressure of 40lbs. "Are you crazy" he asked. Maybe, but just try it for me.

His comment in coming off of the track was "I thought they were hooked up this morning with the lower pressure, but now they're REALLY hooked up." He loves the R-888 tires.

I'm relating these stories to help you all understand that I didn't come by these very unusual pressure settings without some forethought, testing on various cars with different drives and then analyzing the results.

Last story. At the NASA banquet one of the E-30 competitors came up and said that he finally put the pressure up to where I suggested at the last race. I asked how it worked for him. He said that he had turned a lap only 1/10th of a second off of Donny Edwards fastest lap. I asked why he had not done that earlier in the year and he stated that he just couldn't believe that pressures that high would work. Even though HE had maintained Donny's car all year and knew exactly what we were using for starting pressure!

Asked how high the air pressure was that he used before, he said that he had started them at 38 and they went to about 42-44 hot. But, that the hot pressure Donny ran was 45-47. He stated that he could not believe the difference that 45-47 hot pressure made on his car. That it just came alive. 2-4 lbs in hot pressure does make a difference.

E-30's wear? Even across the tire! Heat cycle 0. Wear rate: same as or better than the RA-1. How long do they wear? Down to the cords, just as the RA-1s did.

We've used these same pressure settings for a Porsche 996 Cup full race car that normally races on Michelin or Yokohama slick tires and with the same results. No heat cycling, no excessive wear and totally fun and drivable.

SM competitors, the R-888 has a different construction. A huge change in the design of the tire. You must make some changes to:
1) Your driving style
2) Your air pressure settings
3) Your chassis setup
To get the most out the new R-888's.


Staying with the same old setup, same old pressure and same driving style will not prove beneficial.

My suggestions:
1) Start with the exact chassis setup you have with the RA-1
2) Start the R-888 with 40 to 42 lbs of pressure.
3) Look for 45-47 as your hot pressure goal.
4) Lower the rear of your car to allow the car to run FLAT, no rake!
5) Drive the car as you would a real race tire with as little sliding as possible but concentrate on using the additional side grip and better braking advantage the R-888 has over the RA-1. That's just to start with. Ultimately, a change in sway bar settings may be beneficial.

If you can't get the tire up to 45-47 lbs, start with a HIGHER pressure.

Ultimately, I believe that you will find that about 3 to 3.5 degrees of negative camber will do the trick and with little or no toe out in the front and little or no toe in for the rear.

This should to the trick. Let me know if I can help you.

Thanks,
Ron Cortez
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Lasco001

The Toyo R888 is my favorite tire in combination road / track

What strikes me, you go by strange air pressures ...
I start cold with about 1.8bar (26lbs)
Hot after about three rounds of 2.2 - 2.3 bar (32-33.5lbs)

Cölestin

Bill Dearborn

I just did a quick adjustment to my 08Z alignment. Pulled 4 washers out from behind the upper A Arms on each side and left side camber is -3.3 and right side is -2.6 (didn't have time to play with the LCA cams), toe is set to 1/16 toe in. Rear camber is -1 right and -.8 left. Rear toe in is 3/32. Last week I was really pushing the front tires hard so will also try these recommended pressures to see what happens.

By the way our cold tire pressures have been set at 30 to 40 degrees ambient the last week. Today was the first warm day.

Bill

Werks

Thanks for passing on your set up info. Good luck this weekend and let us know what you find! Unfortunately until I get my car back from the shop mid/end June I'm not going to be able to contribute much from a testing standpoint but I will do my best as far as research though!

The R888 seems to be just about the only reasonably priced R-compound tire available in wider sizes for us vette users (especially in smaller sizes i.e. 18's & 19's) that is suitable for use driving back and forth to the track with. So it would be nice to build up a knowledge base that everyone that is interested in using them can access with set up and tire pressure info. So again, everyone please feel free to share their experiences ultimately I think that we will all benefit from this info

gp2race

Ron @ AIM is on the money. I ran R888 front (38psi) and rear RA1 (30psi). My C6z06 run awesome times at T-hill.

jdwk

I am looking for stickier tires but need to stay above 100 TW to stay in my current class. Both the 888's and RA-1 are rated at 100, as are the NT-01. What is the primary difference between the 888's and RA-1's? Why would you have both?

gp2race

Ra1 335-30-18 on eBay are $389.00 pr shipped. They don't make Ra1 in 295 series. So R888 are $246.00 ea.