waddisme

Here is a typical lap for me:



I have 8 sessions this weekend - any one place I am losing too much time? I will also be on my LG coilovers for the first time here so not sure how that will change my marks.

rbl

Looks like you got out of the gas at south course road coasting and then braking too long and too early on the back straight. You coasted (neutral throttle) all the way through T-14 to 15. The turn in for T-14 is good but I'd hold the turn just a little longer and try to arrive at T-15 about mid track instead of at the corner so it doesn't get pinched off and you can carry a little more speed as a result.

I would keep my foot in it to the 2-1 (lift at 2 and on the brake by 1) marker on the back straight and in the dip get the brakes pretty hard to squat the car and turn in for 14 then right back in the gas and brake again at 15.

An easy 2 seconds here ... maybe more.

Short-Throw

Not the best lap to parse out as it appeared you were held up just before the uphill esses and fought traffic all the way through Oak Tree..

It seems as if you are letting off the gas a wee bit early before the braking zones resulting in coasting. (That being said I fully support being safe than sorry.) You were off the gas on the back straight at the crest. At 14C you 'crabbed' in and pinched the corner versus staying track left and making a faster swooping turn. Roller Coaster requires a leap of faith initially, but the car will stick there and you can be on the throttle sooner. On the front straight you lifted just past the tree, again a bit early. You seemed only half throttle between 2 and 3. A little later apex at 5A would allow you to set the front wheels straighter going through 6 allowing you to get on the gas earlier.

Perhaps some VIR home track experts will weigh in with more.

Overall you seem like a very safe and in control driver, I'd have no problem riding with you.

Mike

waddisme

Thanks for the input. My gut feeling was I needed to shorten up braking zones, but I didn't realize I was coasting as much. I see the pinching there at 14C/15. I will hold that a little longer and mid track it. 5A I will try the later apex also and see if it helps. I always feel like I am falling off the track there until I get to the tto spot.

Much thanks.

spazegun2213

While youtube is blocked here at work. All the racers I know have the "OMG you are going to die" line at the end of the back straight at VIR. I'll try to find a picture to illustrate, but here is the jist.
1) disreguard ALL of the braking markers, they are wrong
2) turn in late to 14, and start braking when the car is straight (you are probably flying by the Arrow at this point in the time past the 1 braking marker.. don't worry, you'll make it). you'll make it for 2 reasons,
2a) the track goes slightly uphill while its moving to the left, eg more braking force
2b) while you cant see it you can straight line to 14c making that straight line braking just that much longer
3) so as you crest the hill you'll be aiming for the inside of 14c, and still on the brakes.
4) take the inside line into 14c which messes most people up, get back on the gas down the hill
5) take 15 like you normally would and use the curb on the inside.
6) presto, you just shaved a good .5 seconds off your lap time.


Now, I say this is fast because you are making the back straight a TON longer. You are also using the hill to shorten your braking zone and once you've passed someone though the braking zone, its nearly impossible for them to pass you back in 14/15.

Again, this is more of a racing line, and is not the easiest, safest, or best. but its fast, so ease up to it!

waddisme

So you are suggesting to stay right side over the crest and then wait for the slight turn in and when I have the straight-line shot for braking all the way to 14C - brake? So then I just need to find where my braking mark would be for slowing up by 14C? Interesting.

Scooter70

I came to this same realization a few weeks ago when L98Terror drove my car at Gingerman. I knew where I lifted and where I started braking and compared it to his. It wasn't that he was braking any/much later but he was holding the throttle longer and going from there to the brake much faster. I tended to get off the throttle just before the OMG moment whereas he was still pedal down for at least another half second past it.

spazegun2213

Well, you'll straight line it... ugh sucks not being able to pull up a video. You'll make the left off of the back straight, you'll aim for the edge of the track left (inside of 14) and you'll hug that while going straight (the track is going away from you here so it will look like you are headed off track as you go straight and the track goes left). Eg, you'll not be able to swing out track left to setup for 14c. You'll still be braking here as you crest the hill and the track will actually come back to you (the track turns right for 14c) and you'll still be braking as you head straight for the inside of 14c. Off the brakes, turn in for 14c, and presto.

If you have an instructor that races, ask him. or get a racer to ride along with you. If you find a video of wally that will probably show you that line. I know we both used it.

Don Keefhardt

Read ^^^^this ^^^^. Then read it again. Even many experienced racers **** away SECONDS on the braking zone at the end of the back straight. This (^^^^) is how to drive past cars every lap in the braking zone.

Basically, I drive past the "left arrow" thingy while cranking the car to the left, get it back square again (i.e. I can see both my hands) and only THEN do I brake. Done it in open cockpit stuff, in Showroom Stock stuff, big power stuff and stinky little Miatas. Works in pretty much everything.

DK's other keys to amusement at VIR:

The tweaky little left-hander (T5 ? the second one, after NASCAR) is, IMO, the most fun corner on the track. It's the slowest...it's a meaningless one (i.e. you have to immediately set up for the following two right-handers, etc.)....but THAT corner is where you can trail-brake like a mad-man after making late-braking moves to the inside (left) on the entry. If I don't spin there at least once a day, I'm having an "off-day". Stand the car on its nose on the brakes...tweak the wheel...correct and giggle.

Oak Tree is just a shrunken version of Moss Corner at Mosport...like somebody left Moss in the dryer too long. The first right should be a fairly shallow entry, then back to full throttle as you drive straight at the outside curb opposite the tree/flag-station. From there, it's what I call a "bar stool corner". If you do it right and get the correct rotation on the brakes (which you've been practicing in T5....), as you slide past the flag station you should feel like you're turning on a bar stool....the car should be rotating underneath you. Concentrate on preserving every last bit of your entry/mid-corner speeed, as that straight is waaay-big-azz long (race it in a 90hp VW...you need to pack a lunch for the back straight).

AU N EGL

Top Speed means little.

Watch Wally's sub 2:00 min run in an ST2 car

http://vimeo.com/20208440

watch his lines and brake points

VTME13

I'm not a racer - yet. This is pretty much how I've started going into 14/14a.

I accelerate until just past the 3 marker - sorta where the blackest mark is, start braking in a straight line, release some brake pressure and turn in just past the arrow (making a straight line towards the apex of 14a). Once I'm straight again there, I go back to threshold braking.
14 could obviously be taken deeper and this method started feeling pretty conservative after a few laps... and I'm still a bit chicken.

One thing I did notice in 5/5a, if you get out of the throttle a little harder when your turning in to the apex of 5a, it'll bring the rear around more and get you pointed straighter at 6. You have to be careful and be ready to catch the rear with the gas. You want a little 4 wheel slide there... kinda like t7 at Summit, where you let off the throttle to steer/slide the rear around to get square to t8 in the Carousel - not sure if you've been up to Summit.

jcsperson

Which group do you instruct for?

Any chance you'll be at the NCM HPDE in June? I'll be in the appropriately named green group.

jaa1992

When I was driving a no power rustang I had Shields B ride with me.
The line described is what he showed me. If I get a good student I'll show them that line. That line takes big brass ones, but it works.
The rustang was limited at 110, when I could make it through the uphill esses and through the entire back straight at top speed I knew I had got those corners. I still have lots to pick up, but I can get students around the track on the student line I learned years ago.

I can't wait for this year to get one of those guys drive the 92 and get some good data.

AU N EGL

NCM Event? hmmm

Yup I have something to do with the NCM event.

jcsperson

Any possibility I can call dibs on an instructor?

waddisme

Keeps crashing my laptop

I do that for 5B but may try it for 5A


Been around at T5 before.


Plenty of good stuff to work on, mostly in the afternoon! Thanks. I will update tomorrow nite.

PushinTheLimit

Great lap by Wally. I can't wait to get back to VIR and have another shot at a hot lap again. Between watching Wally and Danny Popp's videos at VIR, I should be faster.

sleeper02Z06

FYI if you don't have aero you won't be able to do what Wally or Danny do in similar power cars. Check out my vid of a good qual lap in a T1 C5. Only person faster in a T1 C5 on a transponder at VIR that i know of is Andrew A, and he's on another level!

Go to www.over1g-racing.com click videos and scroll down to VIR 2010 qual for race 1. I haven't ported it to youtube yet so let it load up. Hope you can take something from it.

Enjoy!

AU N EGL

Send me an email with your name, and I will see what I can do.



As Sleeper mentioned without full aero, those Wally or Danny lap times are just not going to happen. Both are highly skilled drivers with well balanced cars.

But still watching their lines and brake points can help.

Sleepers vids of an T1 car are great videos.

jcsperson

Sent.