yow

I've read a lot and gotten a lot of opinions but I thought I'd start a thread. Next year, I'd like to have a c5/c5z to do hpde's and move up to time trials with a year or two after that. I've done 3 track weekends in my c6sc and am a decent hpde2 driver with plenty of room for improvement. I want a c5/c5z that I can track and learn more in (while not being as worried about destroying my c6) and eventually move up to time trials. Should I buy a cheap, high mileage c5 and slowly build it as I grow in my abilities? Should I buy a c5z and track it until I'm ready to gut/cage/etc it? Or should I buy a race prepped c5/c5z for $20k-30k?

I want to become a proficient driver and in a few years become competitive. What's the best course of action to save the time, energy, and money? It seems like I could buy a high mileage c5 for 10k and slowly put it together over a few years, making it competitive. A c5z would be several grand more. But by the time you invest in all the stuff, seems like it'd be cheaper to get a race prepped c5. Trouble with that is that you've got the entire expense on the front end. And, do I need a race prepped car for my feeble hpde2 efforts? Any advice would be appreciated.

fwiw I've done Nashville Superspeedway, Memphis, and Road Atl. I know I have a long way to go before being competitive, but I've got the bug. I want to be there in due time.

PushinTheLimit

PM drivinhard... he has one for sale that fits your needs well.

CHJ In Virginia

There are several nicely prepared / caged cars available on the forum. If you add up all the costs of parts, doing most of the labor yourself, a done car is still a better way to go. For what my Z is worth today stock, and the costs I have sunk into modding it for track use over the past 5 years, I would have been WAY ahead buying a used T-1 or other race car. I have enjoyed the process of modding the car as I got faster and that is a consideration in the equation. If the finances are there, I recommend purchasing a prepared car.

travisnd

Only build if you're a taller person who won't fit into a caged C5 w/o taking the roof off to do the cage. Otherwise buy.

I built mine and did all the labor and came in just under $30k after selling off all the parts I didn't need. You can buy a nice track car for high 20s right now.

JerryTX

KNOW your end goal! That is the best advice I can give you. If you have an addictive personality and go full bore into something you are passionate about, then be honest about that and define where you want to end up in 3-5 years and stick to that. For me, having that previously described personality, it was racing and I knew I wanted to end up going wheel to wheel in a competitive setup. It was going to be an E46 M3 in NASA GTS3, or a C6 Vette in NASA ST2 or PTA or SCCA T1. I lost sight of my focus when a great deal came up on a street based M3 and I ended up with SMG transmission and a super clean street car I wasn't willing to gut.. should have stuck to my guns and got a track ***** (car!). Now I have a dedicated C6 track car that someone else built and it is the right tool for my goal and I didn't have to absorb the full cost of the upgrades and cage etc, that to me was key if possible.

Ultimately buying a track car already setup will save you money, you just have to decide if it is competitive enough or will be competitive long enough for you to get your money's worth out of it and meet your goals. Time/Value of money is unique to each person; what skills you bring to the table and your ability to contribute to the build in time or money all factor in to the right decision for each person.

63Corvette

You can buy a finished, competitive race car MUCH cheaper than you can build one. Ideally, you should buy last year's WINNING car, and be sure to get the SETUP book included in the deal, so you will have the settings to be competitive at each different track where you plan to run.

yow

Should I seriously buy a $25k car when I'm still developing the basic skills of going fast? I'm worried about trashing it (or my c6 for that matter) while I focus on getting more seat time in hpde 2. The other end of the spectrum is to buy a budget car like a civic or miata to thrash while I get seat time, then when I'm confident enough, get into a race prepped c5. I appreciate all the input I can get!

The consensus seems to be that a race prepped car is cheaper in the long run but a bigger investment up front. I want to do another 6-10+ hpde's before I get into TT. If I keep running my c6sc, the expense of wear and tear is a consideration. If I buy a cheap car or even a cheap c5, the expense is a consideration.

Looks like I've got a lot of thinking to do.

J.R.

Having done this a few times I can tell you the decision is not even close. BUY A BUILT RACE CAR.

You will still have plenty of things to do and change or fix when you buy a built race car. There are always things to do.

Initially, it seems like you could buy a cheap street car and slowly build it up with used race parts but this is not usually true. Once you add up all the small parts, as well as large parts (race brakes/clutch/transmission/diff etc. etc etc.) the price will be a lot larger than you think and this is not including your time.

yooper

If the budget allows, buy the track car now. As suggessted, a competitive car with log book, current certification, with all the set up notes for the tracks the car has run on.

Current certification will help with inspection at the HPDE events even though it may not be required.

If not equipped, install passenger seat and safety equipment equal to the drivers safety equipment.

Discuss with your instructors, if you are in HPDE2 back off on the race tires while you get more seat time.

Have fun and be safe.

RDnomorecobra

you have a point and while I love the vette, there are cheaper ways to go fast if you want to start out spending less money. you can find 1000 caged and prepped E30 BMWs for sale for a fraction of a T1 vette. Same for Miata. And they're not slow in the right hands. Its all in the driver anyway which is always pointed out on this forum.

parkerracing

As a noob, these are plenty fast enough while you work on yourself and leave a nice piece of budget for entry fees and travel...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/?cmd=...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

PS, when you want faster lap times, don't throw money at the motor, put it in the brakes.

topmover

Your asking the right questions and your also getting all the good answers from people who know.

I basicly started down the same path as you 2.5 years ago only I expected to run HPDE only but got to the point of wanting more of a challenge by running TT.

I started with a stock c5z with a H/C and now I have a car with a 4 point roll bar(not cage) and nearly enough money in it to have bought a fully prepped Katech or Phoneix car. Granted it has all the good stuff in it and it is fast for what it is but in my view once you really figure out what you want to do the best way to go is a complete car and depending on how much you either can or are willing to spend would dictate how new you go.

As TravisND pointed out fit is important...... part of the reason I got out of drag racing a few years back was I bought a pro car built for the previous driver and while I had some success with it I was never as good with it as I could have been because I wasnt comfortable. I can't imagin having a RR car that did'nt fit me correctly.

Two other opinions as I have just traveled the road you say you hope to take. I dont think the number to track days your suggesting is enough to safely(for you or others) to run TT. Finally I didnt put Hooiser on until I had nearly 50 track days, not saying you should wait that long however in my view running with street tires for a lot of track days is helpful.
Just my .02.

varkwso

There are lots of well setup and competitive cars for sale on forum. Some C5s are in the low $20s and some are in high twenties. Recognize any of them are used and may require some TLC. We bought a winning C5 and it still needed some sorting. But it was reliable and fast for a race car. Faster way to get on track in a safe and competitive car.

PushinTheLimit

and has a good former T1 car for sale as well.

I bought an ex T1 car and just like Jeff said, it still needed some TLC to get it closer to where I wanted it. It was quick and reliable at the time I bought it and served me well so far. I've put more money into it since getting it prepped for Nasa's ST2 class and much more than I ever anticipated. Even a well sorted car will possibly need a few things along the way.

My advice is to go ahead and buy the car you plan to race in if you can afford it and get it to the track by the best means you can. That was my plan when I bought my old T1 car and did a few HPDE's in it before I got my comp license. My thought was to practice in the car I would be racing in to work on myself as a driver and get comfortable in the car. I'm glad I did that rather than drive my old street C5Z because it would've need big $$$ sunk into it to get it close to the prep level that I bought my C5Z racecar at.

LEAVINU

Great thread! I recently spoke to Mark about my very similar position on this topic. I too have a C6 I don't want to trash in a wall at RA so researching the C5Z market now. I'm not looking to go competitive purely because I can't afford to in the money and time dept. I still found the above comments helpful in my quest to have a track only C5Z to just get out and beat on for fun. Thanks.

yooper

I parked my HPDE street car and won't go on track without cage, seats, harness, and brakes. And thats just for more seat time.

Be safe!

spazegun2213

I bought my first race car 6 months before I actually started racing with it. It was nice to be comfortable in it in HPDE's then work my way up.

Now I've only ever bought Race cars (never built one) so I cant comment about the price differences. But I can say that even if you buy one, it will need work. The more complete ones you'll do small things to make it fit you (maybe a new seat and things like that). Others you'll need to update a little more (eg an older GM T1 suspension might not be the best for racing in ST-2, etc).

It really depends on what you want and can afford.

LEAVINU

Exactly why I won't use my C6 and exactly all I'd care to change in the next vette I get for 100% track duty.

TJM

Build if you love working on cars.

If you love driving more, then buy.

It will cost less to get a built car.

I am $15,000 into a car right now and it is Competent and Safe nothing to get all excited about.

I emphasize safe, because I am a builder not the driver, and I have seen a lot of things bite people out of the blue.

It is sobering when I see guys with basically stock cars running the speeds they run in HPDE 2 & 3


TJM

rfn026

The red '85 on eBay is going to make someone very happy.

btw - There's a lot of confusion in this thread between track days and racing. The two things are just barely related to each other. About the only similarity between track days and racing is that they take place on a piece of road that was designed for racing.

Richard Newton