JRitt@essex

Hi Guys,
I hope you're all doing well. Could owners of our Hardbar/Essex/AP Racing T1 kit please give me an update on how the system is working for you? We recently built a new blog site, and I'm looking for some customer content to upload. I'm looking for product feedback, wear rates, race/TT wins, podiums, pics, and videos. We're getting a ton of traffic on our new site, so it will be good exposure for you, your car, and your on-track exploits. Please keep it rated PG-13, but scantily clad women draped over your car are okay. Please email me anything you have (and feel free to post here). Thank you very much gents. I'm really looking forward to hearing how it's going for all of our Vette folks!

While I'm here, I'd like to note that we haven't forgotten about the rear kit! It is still on the workbench "to-do" list. We've been a bit sidetracked with other projects, but we have not forgotten!

Finally, we have some other uber-cool new stuff in the works. There are some new products in the pipeline in which all of you will be very, very interested.

GettReal

Hi Jeff,

I am happy to share how thrilled I am with this kit. I have to admit, there were quite a few things that initially sold me on this kit, but I was also a little skeptical about them living up to all of the claims, however there were enough positives that it seemed worth it for me to make the investment. What I have found is that every single claim lived up to the promise.

Clearing Wheels- this was a key driver for me as I have 3 sets of track wheels, happy to report that they cleared all 3 sets.

Wear - I have about 8 HPDE days (approx 45 sessions) on the pads and the rotors and the wear is incredible as I haven't had to change either of them yet. I probably have 1-2 more days out of the pads (Ferodo DS1.11) but the rotors still look like I have several more days out of them (2-piece J-hooks), this has saved me a TON of money on my pad/rotor cost. If I had to guess, I would say its saved me 400-500.00 in consumable cost and I'm half way through the season.

Performance - This is probably the best part, this brake kit stops you!!! It actually took me several days to get used to them.. I would find that even when I tried to brake later, I still had more distance I could use. It was a mental block that I had to get over to be confident that I can brake even later. The pedal feel is always consistent and I haven't felt ANY fade whatsoever.

Convenience - OK, maybe this is the best part. I don't have to change pads and rotors at the track anymore, and when you do need to do a pad swap, you undo one bolt, slide out the old pads, slide in the new ones... Crazy easy.

I just ordered 2 sets of front pads (Ferodo DS1.11) and 1 set of rears (Ferodo DS 1.11) and the total of all 3 sets cost me about the same as ONE set of another brand of pads that I won't mention.

I am a very happy owner of this Brake kit, I am glad I made the purchase and Jeff and Daniel at Essex provide amazing customer service.

Steve

Olitho

I love my Hardbar/AP T1 brake kit. It is a winner in performance. It does a more than effective job hauling my car down from 150+ at some of the most brake demanding tracks like Road America and Auto Club Speedway. The calipers and rotors hold up lap-after-lap and race-after-race.

The Hardbar/AP T1 brake kit is also a winner financially. The kit is reasonably priced at initial purchase and the total cost of ownership is a winner, too. The pads are inexpensive due to an industry standard shape and a wide variety of brands and compounds to choose from.

They last a good amount of laps even when constantly threshold braking, but when it is time to change them just a quick 7mm nut turn and they pop right out and the calipers are ready to take in new pads. Just push back the anti-knock-back pistons to insert the new pads. I used to bleed the calipers every session. I don't do that anymore. It just isn't necessary. When I do bleed the brakes the fluid comes out pretty clean looking. That is a vast difference from my old system where the fluid came out very visibly polluted.

With the pad shape being so common, if for some reason I am caught short on a new set of pads, some other racer or vendor in the paddock is sure to have a set for me.


Oli

redtopz

I've been meaning to post up about these brakes. I'm running them on my T1 car and I highly recommend them. You know you have good brakes when a race weekend goes by and on the way home you realize you never even had to think about your brakes. Looking at data of my T1 car vs. my ST2 car which has full aero and 14" rotors and stoptech ST60 front calipers, I was surprised to see that the deceleration rates of the 2 cars were nearly identical. Combined with castrol SRF, I go through entire race weekends without bleeding brakes, changing pads, or rotors. In fact the rotors seem to last all season depending on what pads you use. My only complaint about my brakes are the stock C5Z abs system which has nothing to do with the AP/Hardbar kit. Thanks for a great product!

Bill

sebdavid

I now have enough experience with this system that I can confidently post about it. My car is heavy (stock weight + coolers, hitch, half-cage, etc.), it's got 407whp and I trail brake a lot, so I'm a bit of a nightmare on brakes; my wear rates seem much higher than others. I've been using a variety of tires from street tires to Conti scrubs. To give a more objective idea of my driving level, I'm running 1:33s at Mosport and 2:11s at Watkins Glen, both in traffic.

One track day for me is usually 4-5 20-30 minute sessions or more, so anywhere between 1h30 and 2h track time.

It's hard for me to compare wear rates with the stock setup since I didn't spend too much time on that, but I'm getting up to 5 days out of a set of pads (Ferodo DS1.11, about 3 days with the AP Racing C300, and about one day with Carbotech XP-12). I seem to be getting 5-10 days out of my rotor rings but I am NOT using the J-hook that are suggested with the system, but rather less expensive DBA 5000 2-piece rotors.

The practicality of quickly changing pads by removing the bridge bolt is a huge advantage when you get a lot of track time and have other things to worry about (i.e. students at HPDE). I'm still trying to find a really painless solution to push the pistons back completely to fit brand-new extra-thick pads, so if anyone has a suggestion, I'm interested. It is also very easy to check for pad wear without removing the wheel as the calipers are quite "open" in their design.

A common pad shape means MUCH lower priced pads, difference in price of about 30% from what I've seen. If you do a lot of events, this alone could pay for the calipers quite quickly!

Bleeding is pretty easy despite having to go back and forth between the inside and outside, although I do it mostly for peace of mind as the fluid usually comes out very clean. Pad taper is very slight compared with the stock system.

Pedal feel is extremely good when the pads are newish, of course there's more travel when it gets worn down more. No knockback or weird feeling, ever. There seems to be no issue with brake bias either.

I've had a few nuts & bolts come loose, so I suggest you use some Loctite whenever possible on the nuts and bolts you keep working on.

Wheel clearance was critical for me as I wanted to be able to keep using the stock 17" wheels. I've been using those and the stock 18" with no problem.

Oh yeah, and I can get the ABS to kick in even at the end of a long, hard session on slicks, which I guess is the main reason you'd want good brakes! And bonus: they look cool!

Overall I'm very happy with the calipers, although I would love to get more days out of a set of pads, but with my current setup and the way I drive, I guess it's out of the question. I'll still be trying more pad compounds to see if I can't find a more durable one (CL?).

el es tu

Anxious to see if the front and rear T1 kit (using stock rotors) will be under 3 grand. I think it would put a dent in the competition posed by the wilwood SL narrow front and rear kit which runs for around 2900 to 3200 shipped.

redtopz

I've been getting good results running hawk dtc70 in front with dtc60 in back on stock rear brakes (using dba rotors). The 70's were tearing up my stock rotors in one day, but the AP floating rotors are MUCH more durable and can take the abuse.

naschmitz

I share a lot your experiences except this one. I've got nordlocks on the bolts holding the caliper to the bracket and on the bolts holding the braket to the spindle. Never had any problem with bolts coming loose.

After two full seasons on my AP brakes I sent them to Essex for recert and new seals and they look as good as new.

I burnt through a new set of CL8s in 3 days at VIR running 2:10 laps. Never had to bleed them or flip pads -- only way to tell how worn the pads got was to physically look at them. Had to skip the final session on the third day because there was too little pad material left. Pedal was remarkably consistent all three days.

Love how I can keep a set of stock rotors around as spares just in case.

sebdavid

I didn't have Nordlocks on my kit (didn't install it myself). Maybe that was the problem, or maybe it was incorrect torque when tightening after a pad/rotor change, I'm not sure. Now everyting seems to be holding tight with a dab of Loctite once in a while.

Thanks for the feedback re: RC8, I won't be trying that compound then. Maybe the RC6E?

JRitt@essex

Thanks for all of the feedback guys!

Steve I put your car up on our site already...car looks fantastic! Thanks for the great response, and I'm glad they're working so well for you.

Oli and Bill. Can you guys please get me a decent photo and/or some video? I'd also love to have your wins, podiums, etc. with our system if you have it. You can pm or email me if you'd prefer. Thanks!

sebDavid,
The DS1.11's have some of the best wear rates on the market. I don't think you're going to find a lot else out there that will beat them in that regard. That makes me think something else is going on. I think part of the reason why you may be burning through pads at a higher rate is your discs. How the discs are constructed, and what they're made of will have a huge impact on running temperatures and resulting pad wear. Over the course of a season, you may actually be spending more on replacement pads than you would be on a set of the AP discs. Before investing in any more pads, you may want to seriously consider the J Hook discs. You could sell the DBA's, or just keep them as spares in a pinch. I just worry that if the discs are your limiting factor, you'll be continually barking up the wrong tree for a solution, and burning up money on pads. I doubt you'll half your pad consumption rate, but you may see a dramatic improvement.

You guys should definitely be checking your hardware once in a while as regular maintenance. Just make sure everything is tightened to spec.

We will certainly see what we can do.

Thanks again guys...now get me some pics and video! Where's that silly, "This thread is useless without pics" picture?

sebdavid

Thanks for the advice. I have plenty of rings for the DBA so I'll keep going for now. The initial cash outlay for the J hook was just too much for me to justify considering the closeout deals on the DBA. Even if my pad consumption was increased by 25-50% I'd still come out ahead.

Once I run out of rings, I will surely try the j-hooks, however. At least now I'll be familiar with a wide variety of compounds.

Not that I am skeptical (just uninformed), but I'm curious as to how a given rotor material/construction could generate more heat. Slot shapes perhaps? I'd love to know more.

One more question: how often should I have the calipers rebuilt, and where do I send them for this purpose? Of course it depends, but for hard use, how many track days/track hours do you figure? Or are there any tell-tale signs? For now they seem to be working just as well as on the first day, they look pretty much bulletproof.

JRitt@essex

Makes sense! Definitely get a feel for some different pads and see what you like.

Number of vanes, vane shape/design, wall thickness, air gap, slot design, metallurgy, hat design...tons of factors here that will impact how hot a disc runs, how quickly it cools, how likely it is to crack, how likely it is to have judder/vibration, etc. Brake disc design is a continually evolving science. AP is a leader in this area because of their involvement in all areas of motorsport. Below is a link that has some of the design elements in the AP discs:

CP3908...this is the disc used in our Corvette T1 system.

There is no standard answer on this one. It's going to depend on how they are used. A novice driver in a stock C5 on street tires, driving Willow Springs, may be able to lap for the rest of his life without rebuilding! A pro driver, in a fully built C6Z on Hoosiers, running Road America will be putting a far greater amount of stress and heat into the parts. You can see the dilemma in making an overall rebuild recommendation.

In pro racing, piston seals are always replaced after every single race. That is the primary maintenance item on the caliper, and the main thing you'll need to keep an eye on. There won't necessarily be other symptoms or signs that the caliper needs to be serviced. Obviously if you ding one up, or are in an incident, you should definitely have them inspected and repaired or replaced.

The main thing is that when you see a tattered/ragged/feathered edge on a piston seal, it should be replaced. It is super easy to pull a piston. You can literally just slip them out of the piston bore to inspect the seals...just make sure you remember there is a spring hanging on the back of it in our system! To get them back in, you just lube them up with some brake fluid and push them back in. This should probably go without saying, but I'll say it anyway, the calipers should be off the car and on a workbench when you do this sort of thing.

Essex is AP's North American caliper re-certification facility. You send them to us, and we evaluate them and make a recommendation on what parts should be replaced. We rebuild/refresh, ship them to you, and you're back on track. A lot of people do this at the end of each season. That way they know they'll be going back out in the spring with a fresh setup and nothing to worry about.

sebdavid

Thanks for all the info. Do you have a price range on the rebuilds? Can seals be replaced easily by the end user?

And I guess this is a dumb question, but if there's no pressure in the system, i.e. nobody pressing on the brake pedal, why would it be such a bad thing to remove a piston while the caliper is still hooked up? You'd have to bleed it after of course, but not worse than putting the caliper back on the car after inspection, no?

naschmitz

Do you have a link to the left side part too?

JRitt@essex

Caliper rebuilds work out to roughly $120 per caliper. That includes labor, new seals, and testing. If you need additional parts (new pistons, etc.), that is extra. In most cases additional items are not needed if it is just regular maintenance.

Yes, seals can be easily replaced by the end user. The big issue with trying to do this on a car is being able to see what you're looking at. You can easily pop a piston (I'm sure some of you have done this inadvertently, which always causes some colorful language). You aren't going to be able to adequately examine the seals while the caliper is on the car. They should be on a bench, under some light, so you can actually see what you're looking at. Combing for flaws on a black seal, in a gray caliper, hiding in the shadows, while contorting your body to get a good view doesn't work so well!

The big benefits of our rebuild service are that you don't need to get dirty, and our caliper re-builders know what they're looking at. They rebuild calipers for the top NASCAR and ALMS teams all the time, and they have a keen eye and plenty of experience. They will identify and stem any issues before they cause a problem. The calipers will also be pressure tested before they go back to you, so you'll know the seals were replaced properly and the calipers will hold pressure, before you drive them.

JRitt@essex

I don't think I ever put the other side up on the site. Most people call for replacements. I'll do that! Sorry.

Essex part numbers for the right and left:
Right= 19 01 912 (AP Racing part number= CP3908-102GA)
Left= 19 01 913 (AP Racing part number= CP3908-103GA)

Olitho

I haven't won a single race since Redtopz got your T1 brake set-up.

The car is undergoing a new wrap for the Runoffs and the new season in about three weeks. I will get you fresh pictures then.

Oli

redtopz

Not true, Oli is being modest. Let's just say that 2 of the top 3 national points leaders in T1 are running the T1 AP brake system. And the other one is a C6 LS3 . Not sure what this means (if anything) but it might sound good on your website .

JeremyGSU

Sounds like a great kit. I think one thing that people should mention when they are giving their reviews is whether they have the 12.81 rotors or the 14". The difference between the two can give a big difference on performance and I'd be curious to know which one the people who posted above were using.

Olitho

12.8" for me on a C5 T1 Corvette with 17" wheels.