Who's using a Sprint or CoW Booster & your thoughts?
08-24-2012, 02:18 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Who's using a Sprint or CoW Booster & your thoughts?
I think the Sprint Booster at $300+ is overpriced for a simple plug-in amplifier, but who's using it & what are your thoughts?
Last edited by Bedouin; 07-14-2015 at 01:39 PM.
08-24-2012, 04:31 PM
#3
Team Owner
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Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
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take your car to a tuner and get a great dyno tune.
mail order or 'chips' can not do a thing
when the GS or LS7 is properly tuned, there is NO throttle lag.
mail order or 'chips' can not do a thing
when the GS or LS7 is properly tuned, there is NO throttle lag.
08-24-2012, 08:13 PM
#4
Race Director
Granted, I think the Sprint Booster at $300+ is overpriced for a simple plug-in amplifier, but who's using it in HPDE's & what are your thoughts?
I've had a couple P-cars & liked how quickly they rev'd during light heel-toe throttle blips & figured it was the lightness of their 6-Cyl/Mahle/Pankl config, as opposed to my LS3.
But after feeling the slower throttle response in my stock '12 GS 6spd dry sump, I'm now learning that throttle inputs are dialed back a LOT by the ECU etc at the throttle butterfly.
I've learned to compensate, & always HPDE with the TC & AH turned off, but would much prefer not having to go so deep into the gas peddle during heel-toe downshifts. Although I'd prefer not to contend with snap oversteer either...
I've had a couple P-cars & liked how quickly they rev'd during light heel-toe throttle blips & figured it was the lightness of their 6-Cyl/Mahle/Pankl config, as opposed to my LS3.
But after feeling the slower throttle response in my stock '12 GS 6spd dry sump, I'm now learning that throttle inputs are dialed back a LOT by the ECU etc at the throttle butterfly.
I've learned to compensate, & always HPDE with the TC & AH turned off, but would much prefer not having to go so deep into the gas peddle during heel-toe downshifts. Although I'd prefer not to contend with snap oversteer either...
I have driven c6's, but not the latest GS, did GM step up the nannies?
As for the last part of your description "snap oversteer" I would not describe either of the two (signature) I owned as exhibiting snap oversteer.
I did instruct (drive) an S2000 that I thought qualified for that but controlled inputs tamed it.
If you were able to "tune" the car for "instant" throttle response, would that not exacerbate the last part also?
08-24-2012, 08:44 PM
#5
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
That's not true......
The Heel Toe action is 1,000 times better than before... Shifts are now only a "BLIP".
Everyone who has it LOVES IT and it's been VERY popular with the road race guys for that reason....
Mine can be more or less aggressive than the competition and tailored to your taste exactly.....
I can also program CoW BOOSTER! to change it's modes when you turn TC ON/OFF or COMP MODE.
Call any time if you have questions.
Chuck CoW
08-25-2012, 08:47 AM
#8
Former Vendor
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Naturally, a proper tune is essential.....
But WITH or WITHOUT a tune CoW BOOSTER IS AMAZING!
There are those that THINK they can accomplish the same thing, and I DO know what they THINK
they are doing.... but, it can't even come close to what CoW BOOSTER DOES.....
Not until you've tried CoW BOOSTER! for yourself could you know what I'm talking about.
Chuck CoW
08-26-2012, 05:27 AM
#10
Sr.Random input generator
There is not much throttle interference in my experience with tc/ah off. Maybe a small amount but really not much that would get my attention.
I have driven c6's, but not the latest GS, did GM step up the nannies?
As for the last part of your description "snap oversteer" I would not describe either of the two (signature) I owned as exhibiting snap oversteer.
I did instruct (drive) an S2000 that I thought qualified for that but controlled inputs tamed it.
If you were able to "tune" the car for "instant" throttle response, would that not exacerbate the last part also?
I have driven c6's, but not the latest GS, did GM step up the nannies?
As for the last part of your description "snap oversteer" I would not describe either of the two (signature) I owned as exhibiting snap oversteer.
I did instruct (drive) an S2000 that I thought qualified for that but controlled inputs tamed it.
If you were able to "tune" the car for "instant" throttle response, would that not exacerbate the last part also?
Anyhow, I will try Diablo's inTune, which also states that they make the throttle mapping linear and it comes with a canned tune, too. I think, even though GM's effort is understandable, ultimately linear gas pedal would give you the best control.
08-27-2012, 01:42 PM
#12
Race Director
I drove a 2011 GS 6spd all nannies off yesterday at an autox. I could sense a very small throttle lag vs my 04 but ran faster in the GS (last run) vs my 04z. Owner beat me by about 1.5 sec.
I wonder if your issue has more to do with you being used to a light(er) weight flywheel that allows an engine to rev up quicker vs the Vette (not at all a lightweight fw).
I did not try rev matching so can't speak to that specific aspect. Maybe you just need to adjust your foot placement a little as the pedal config & heights are no doubt different than what your muscle memory is used to.
I do heel/toe my 04z and it seems just right, but I'm used to it after 4 years & I only stab it once. I have seen some guys who stab it multi times (my buddy a p car driver).
Hope some of this helps?
I wonder if your issue has more to do with you being used to a light(er) weight flywheel that allows an engine to rev up quicker vs the Vette (not at all a lightweight fw).
I did not try rev matching so can't speak to that specific aspect. Maybe you just need to adjust your foot placement a little as the pedal config & heights are no doubt different than what your muscle memory is used to.
I do heel/toe my 04z and it seems just right, but I'm used to it after 4 years & I only stab it once. I have seen some guys who stab it multi times (my buddy a p car driver).
Hope some of this helps?
Last edited by froggy47; 08-27-2012 at 01:48 PM.
08-27-2012, 01:51 PM
#13
Race Director
When you switch to competition mode, for instance, the actual throttle vs. the gas pedal becomes even less linear as explained by the GM engineers (for ZL1). The idea is that you can better fine tune your input since you can afford to give bigger input (as it gets a bit numb).
Anyhow, I will try Diablo's inTune, which also states that they make the throttle mapping linear and it comes with a canned tune, too. I think, even though GM's effort is understandable, ultimately linear gas pedal would give you the best control.
Anyhow, I will try Diablo's inTune, which also states that they make the throttle mapping linear and it comes with a canned tune, too. I think, even though GM's effort is understandable, ultimately linear gas pedal would give you the best control.
08-27-2012, 02:55 PM
#14
ADV - I've had the Booster for several months and find it gives exactly what you are looking "on the street", i.e. much greater response from a given level of throttle application. On the track, I have not found it useful as the booster improves the throttle response in the lower RPM range. Only time you're ever there is @ pit out/in and you're not really using it then. Once you get to the higher rpm range, the booster and the stock tune converge. Get it for the street, it's a blast. Not bad on the track, just of little benefit.
08-27-2012, 03:09 PM
#15
Race Director
Froggy, I think Ozer may indeed be right. & I also think you're right that the LS3 is just a slower revving engine than the Pcar's flat six, & I just need to get used to it. I know the LS7 (w/ Ti rods/valves) revs out quicker than the LS3 too.
I've read a couple posts that GM actually dials back the throttle response on the LS3,7,9 even more in Comp mode. My terminology isn't correct, but when I say throttle response, I mean a computer controlled throttle butterfly lag when stepping on the gas peddle, ie; 50% throttle means a much lower amount at the intake butterfly.
There's a really long, but very informative, whitepaper written by a Mercedes driver on the Sprint Booster...he tested the device thoroughly. He was able to get rapid/100% throttle response both with & without the booster, but there was a millisecond lag without it.
The main point he made was that a driver can get rapid/full throttle if you just train your foot do go faster/deeper into the pedal. I just miss the instant response of a quick revving engine.
I've read a couple posts that GM actually dials back the throttle response on the LS3,7,9 even more in Comp mode. My terminology isn't correct, but when I say throttle response, I mean a computer controlled throttle butterfly lag when stepping on the gas peddle, ie; 50% throttle means a much lower amount at the intake butterfly.
There's a really long, but very informative, whitepaper written by a Mercedes driver on the Sprint Booster...he tested the device thoroughly. He was able to get rapid/100% throttle response both with & without the booster, but there was a millisecond lag without it.
The main point he made was that a driver can get rapid/full throttle if you just train your foot do go faster/deeper into the pedal. I just miss the instant response of a quick revving engine.
Throttle lag not equal to throttle position (butterfly vs. right foot).
If a driver is used to driving with nanny ON and depresses gas pedal 50%
then
same driver turns nanny off and depresses gas pedal 50%
he gets different throttle body/butterfly openings.
I understand why GM might do that.
Basically they decided the "average" Vette driver is too stupid or unable to learn how to manage the power.
In many cases the would be correct, but it still bugs me.
I strongly encourage every autox student I have (BMW, Vette, whatever) to shut the nanny off 100% and learn to drive the car. I love it when I get the "wow" out of them & the big grin & sure they loop it a few times during the learning process, but they also learn over/under steer, threshhold braking & lots more.
On track you need to be more selective on the recommendation, which is why I wish more guys/gals would also try autox in a safe lot.
For your specifics I am still thinking 1) just roll your foot deeper & 2) you don't NEED to get the revs that high to rev match, usually, unless you are doing it too early into the corner, maybe wait a little longer till the engine revs come down.
I would be very careful doing a tune or plugging something in to address your concern. I think tunes are ok for other stuff.
08-27-2012, 05:13 PM
#16
Sr.Random input generator
My opinion on LSx engines' throttle response: V8s with big cylinders (and there are 8 of those) are naturally a bit lazier to rev than engines with smaller cylinders/rotating assembly, but I don't think there's much of a lag in our cars' throttle response. It becomes an issue with the turbocharged cars where the air needs to travel from all that intercooler tubing, and the turbo needs to spool, wasting time, but I actually love our cars' throttle response: instant torque/HP.
As you guys well put it, lag (throttle response) and willingness to rev are different things. I think LS engines are excellent in former, and OK in latter
As you guys well put it, lag (throttle response) and willingness to rev are different things. I think LS engines are excellent in former, and OK in latter
08-27-2012, 09:11 PM
#17
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I really don't see any difference between full nannies on and all nannies off or even comp mode. The first run today I forgot to turn the nannies off and didn't even realize it until I pulled back into my parking space. Next time out I turned every thing off. No change in braking and no change in throttle response.
Bill
Bill
08-28-2012, 08:47 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
I think you need to wait longer in the brake zone before downshifting so the susequent blip required is less severe to match engine revs to road speed in the lower gear. I find no issue with the GS LS3 and it's ability to rev. The rpm raise required is 800 rpm or less to match revs.
Many drivers immediately begin their downshift after they go to the brakes requiring a significant rpm raise to match roadspeed in the lower gear to avoid locking the rear tires. If they were patient I think they would find the downshift to be much smoother and easier.
Many drivers immediately begin their downshift after they go to the brakes requiring a significant rpm raise to match roadspeed in the lower gear to avoid locking the rear tires. If they were patient I think they would find the downshift to be much smoother and easier.
08-28-2012, 09:23 PM
#20
Sr.Random input generator
I think you need to wait longer in the brake zone before downshifting so the susequent blip required is less severe to match engine revs to road speed in the lower gear. I find no issue with the GS LS3 and it's ability to rev. The rpm raise required is 800 rpm or less to match revs.
Many drivers immediately begin their downshift after they go to the brakes requiring a significant rpm raise to match roadspeed in the lower gear to avoid locking the rear tires. If they were patient I think they would find the downshift to be much smoother and easier.
Many drivers immediately begin their downshift after they go to the brakes requiring a significant rpm raise to match roadspeed in the lower gear to avoid locking the rear tires. If they were patient I think they would find the downshift to be much smoother and easier.