jlutherva

There was a thread on this subject a while back but I can't seem to find it. Can someone suggest some key words that were used? Title and bill of sale don't get it.
Cheers,
Jim

RonnieM

I don't know about the previous thread, but I asked the question about titles 40 years ago and was told do you want someone to come up and say that's my car.

c4cruiser

Check with your state DMV to see what the process is for having/getting a valid Certificate of Title. Some states will issue a title without issuing plates and registration.

Even if you have a valid title in your name, the vehicle plate registration can lapse. The title is still valid as proof of ownership.

Zip Corvettes

Jim,
I just saw the post, you should have just asked me in the email.
There are no titles on race cars, fellas this is not a street car that is a tracked, this is a real race car. They are bill of sale. It would be very difficult for someone to come up an claim ownership of a car without any proof of building or purchasing. Jim you would have plenty of proof you own the car, especiallly since I am the one who built it from the ground up. The Pratt & Miller C6R's don't have titles, I think it would be difficult for someone to claim ownership of one of those also. Race cars are basically parts in box's that are assembled.
Justin

jlutherva

Hey Justin,
The scenario I'm wondering about would be where I'm happily towing down I-85 and get pulled over and asked to show proof of ownership. Anybody can make up a bill of sale and there's really nothing tying the bill of sale to the car since there's no VIN or any other distinct identification. Perhaps a notarized bill of sale w/ pics?

Some state I lived in had a process of stamping a VIN into a home-made trailer.

Just wondering......

Jim

Cobra4B

My father has a Panoz GTRA. Car has no VIN only a serial number plate from Panoz riveted to the chassis. Car was sold on a Bill of Sale.

Zip Corvettes

Jim
It is a good cause to be worried about. A bill of sale is all they have, I can serial the car with a name plate which I had planned on doing anyways, but there is no windshield frame which is where the VIN would go if a race car had one. So the only way to get a title to it would be for you to take it to DMV, they would have a state trooper attach a VA vin plate to it and then you get to pay tax on a race car. When they do a search to see what new WC race car sells for, you may be paying VA tax on a $250,000+. My recommendation would be to keep copy of the bill of sale with you in the truck so if a officer does ask, then you have an answer. I have never heard of an issue with any race car being pulled over and citied for not having a title, heck if that were the case can you imagine the money in tickets they would issue after a Nascar race.

Jim I will have a serial plate printed for the car and we will stamp it as serial 001.

0Louis @ LG Motorsports

We have built 20+ race cars in the last 15 years. Not one had a title, all had bill of sales, and VINs. Its a race car, we tow 10+ races a year with multiple cars, never once asked for proof of ownership.

Hypothetical scenario- What if you hire a driver to drive your truck/trailer to the race? Do they ask him for proof of ownership? Not in my experience!

2 GTOs

I had the same concerns, did the research, and concluded very few race cars had titles, just a bill of sale. Unless someone else is producing something that says they own the car, I really dont think there would be a problem.

I purchased dirtbikes and never had a title, just a bill of sale.

jlutherva

Thanks for the input everybody. It certainly looks like a non-issue; a bill of sale with pics is the way to go.

Justin - good point on the taxes!


Jim

Cobra4B

Jim,

Come on now. If you're affluent enough to be buying race cars you really need to pay your fair share. Should probably fess up and pay those taxes on a $250k car. Someone has to fund those EBT cards.

Falcon

Hell, aside from the property taxes the locals would expect to receive, imagine the state sales taxes!!!!!

I've never titled nor registered my car. I have a title from the previous owner and a bill of sale, but I'll never do anything with them.

Cobra4B

I have mine registered and titled. I do pay personal property taxes on it each year, but it's based on a greatly reduced rate i.e. a value of $10k or something. Plus, it's deductible. Also it allows me to use my normal insurance company vs. some specialty policy and I can drive it in the street to test stuff and take to the random car show. Works for me

PushinTheLimit

I have the title to my car and I'll give it to the person that buys it.

jlutherva

Trust me, I'm not one of the 47%..... I pay my fair share.

Jim

Zip Corvettes

Jim,
There will also be a serial plate on the car.
The problem is this is a real race car. A cop sees you in this and its impounded and you are going to jail. The exhaust will exiting out the side and the rear wing you are not fooling anyone. Not to mention the little bitty race clutch, not good on the street.
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Zip Corvettes

Before anyone gets upset about my real race comment, it was not meant to say your car is not a "race car" a T1 car should have a title unless it is one of the original box cars from GM which they don't have titles, but you could drive a T1 car on the street and pretty much everything to be legal is on one. This car is a WC/STO car and you if it is not a race part, it is not on there. There are not street car parts in the car.

Cobra4B

No offense taken. Part of the reason I was drawn to build a C5 into a race car was based on my experience maintaining my father's Panoz. I couldn't drive it on the street so little stupid things would pop up at the track. Things that would have been easy to take care of with a little shake-down. The only street car parts left on mine are the turn signals and one wiper, but I do keep plates on it.