2MCHPWR

Tough weekend for me.
It was only my second day there so totally still green.
Saturday wasn't great due to continues track issues (see my notes below).
On my first run on Sunday, with A6’s at 28 lbs cold, checked right before I went out, on the warm up lap (lap 1), braking hard on the main straight coming into turn 1, the car pulled hard to the right (inside of the turn). That spooked me so I thought it was a brake issue/ caliper issue. I took it easy going up the uphill esses and then when I braked for the bus stop and turned right, I then had to turn left like normal but it kept going right, to the off track run off section. I came to a safe stop and saw the broken tire.

What could have caused that? The track people said 4-5 cars that weekend had similar issues.





Here are some pics of the TT cars:

http://www.ponycars.net/glennasasept2012.htm

Here are some of my notes of the weekend (not a lot of run time for a weekend event; very disappointed):

Saturday –
first session – TT and instructor group combined. Last years R6’s. Only got like 2 laps before black flag. Guy in e36 M3 lost a tire (supposedly same as what happened to me). Also radical stalled out. End of session.
2nd session – another combined run group TT/instructors and still on R6’s. was only like 5 laps in total before black red flag/black flag. Some guy spun and need to be pulled off; forgot who/ what. Ran a 2:13
3rd session – TT only session so I put on better A6’s (from Monticello with 5-6 heat cycles). I got 1/2 lap before black flag (guy in a beautiful 1969 camaro, with aero and huge tires, broke his motor, oiled track, spun onto grass and caught fire). Because I abruptly pitted without cool down, rear rotor cracked.
4th session – TT only so still on the A6’s. I must have not pushed my oil dipstick all the way in/closed and it pushed out and oiled my engine compartment so I saw the smoke in first lap and pitted in and didn't get back out in time. I went out with the expert group that went next just to make sure all was right with the car (it was) but it was super crowded.

Sunday:
first session - my A6 Hoosier disintegrated. probably busted a bead on the warm up lap, lost a lot of air, and then it broke and I safely pulled in to run off area.
2nd session - I put on my older / backup tires (last year’s R6’s) and took it easy to make sure the tire situation wasn't caused by a bad alignment or something. Ran a 2:13.
3rd session - heavy rain and i didn't go out. too many crashes in the weekend. why risk it? Would have been a wasted; see below e92 M3…

Cars I saw on flatbed:
• e92 v8 M3 – first lap of the 3rd session on Sunday, the session I didn’t go out on, spun and crashed into pit out wall.
• new mustang (might have been BOSS 302 if they make them in orange)
• s2000
• GTO
• c6 z06 – not too bad; tank slapper on uphill esses. Hit rear quarter panel lightly and bent tie rod end.
• my friend tapped wall with his evo X but not major
• too many other incidents to recall them all

Unloading the car, I saw a decent leak from the PS pump/resevoir area. Not sure exactly where it is coming from yet. Turn 1 pump. Will have to inspect this week...

My friends videos (he was in TTS evo):
Saturday – 3rd session - car blew and engine and caught on first on our first hot lap at the beginning of the session, red flag the entire session:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myFmZ2X6M4


Sunday – 3rd session (I didn’t go out) – e92 m3 hit a wall at turn 2 on our first hot lap as it starts to rain. track was already damp from steady misting all day. black flag almost the entire session. i went wide exiting turn 1 when i saw him spin thinking there might be oil on track that caused him to spin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuPoEw7hL1g

drivinhard

Product Bulletin
September 24, 2012

Hoosier Tire’s road race tire line is designed for flat road course applications throughout the country. However, as several sanctioning bodies include high banked oval road courses in their race schedules, Hoosier Tire customers must take note on the car and tire setup differences when running on these high banked oval road courses. These recommendations must be adhered to or tire overloading will occur. High banked oval road courses include, but are not limited to, Daytona International Speedway, Texas World Speedway, Las Vegas Motor Speedway, Auto Club -Fontana Speedway, Homestead – Miami, Lowes Motor Speedway, Kansas Speedway, New Hampshire Int’l Speedway, Pikes Peak International Raceway, Pocono Raceway, Texas Motor Speedway and Watkins Glen Int’l. Although Watkins Glen Int’l is not a high banked oval road course, it does offer high speeds and loads similar to high banked oval road courses.

DOT – R6 / A6
Air Pressure: (Cold) 30 – 32 psi
Camber Settings: Front: -2.0 degrees or less
(Hot) 30 – 32 psi Rear: -2.0 degrees or less
(Hot) 34 – 36 psi Rear: -2.0 degrees or less
(Hot)40 – 42 psi Rear: -2.0 degrees or less

Being diligent in monitoring air pressure and your tire temperatures throughout your sessions at
high banked oval road courses is key for our tires to work properly.

BEZ06

Good report about a tough weekend!!

You say it "lost a lot of air".

It looks like you're running a C5, and I'm not familiar with how the C5 TPMS works, but in a C6 you get a low pressure alert in the DIC when pressure goes below about 24psi, which would have only been a slight decrease from your cold pressure, and that would certainly alert a C6 driver that a big problem had occurred so they could back off and limp back to the pits.

Just curious what your TPMS told you.

Bob

2MCHPWR

Hi Bob - there are no TPS system in a c5 z06

BEZ06

Ahhh - I see!!

A lot of C6 guys seem to try to defeat/bypass the system, but I've always liked that I will know if I start losing pressure during a session.

Bob

2MCHPWR

http://www.hoosiertire.com/pdfs/bankedovalroad.pdf

thanks Mark - I will start with more psi next time there. But are you saying, or am I reading it correctly, that I should change my front camber from -3.0 now to be -2.0 for next time I visit the Glen?

RX-Ben

I wouldn't drop down to a static 3deg unless you have monoball bushings. Your dynamic camber is 2 or less w/poly.

Wicked Weasel

The pdf reads that way to me and i have always run over-2.0. Wonder why the change.

95jersey

ALWAYS lots of cars on the flatbed at the Glen. Never been there without seeing some type of incident.

froggy47

What is the build date on the tire?

What is the tire size & rim size?

28 cold is not THAT low, but it should have been more.

For autox I run 24 psi hot on my 335 rears & the tire takes it fine. Obviously track is different.

I recently got an a6 that has a slow leak (porosity of the tread, NOT a cut/hole/rim issue).

I called Hoosier & they admitted that occasionally there will be a slow leak & said it should not affect performance.

The tire would lose 6-8 psi overnight. I am using it & checking air pressure every session.

I think there was more to it than just low pressure in your tire failure. Debris on the track?

I took my tires off yesterday from Sunday event and found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BcoR0m7qD8&feature=plcp

Drove home on it actually.

PA Z06

Glad you made it out ok Scott

Bill Dearborn

There were a lot of inexperienced people there last weekend. Having the TT guys run in the Instructor Group was revealing. While some were fast and obviously knew how to get around the track others that I passed were all over the place and not following any good lines. Passing made everything a zoo. Told in the morning that passing signals were required and then you get idiots bombing down on you just as you get a point by to pass. Almost clipped a blue BMW due to that. If they had said no passing signals I would have been ready for that but when you are in line waiting for a signal from the car in front of you you don't expect the guy behind you to pull out and pass you just as you start to pull out. As I was braking into T1 and about to cut into the apex this other guy comes flying down the straight and cuts inside of me as I am turning. Luckily, I saw him coming and suspected the idiot was going to do just that. Next time people will get walked over a few lanes before we get into the situation.

NASA let them out in front of the instructors in the first morning session of the second day and gave us yellow flag. Leaders were driving 35 mph on the back straight and zig zagging in a useless attempt to get their tires hot and pressures up. On a cold day with a cold track you have to take it easy but you need to have some speed to get the tires warm. Zig zagging doesn't cut it and has been debunked over and over again by the pros. Wasted whole first lap doing that and still didn't have warm tires. Need to get speeds up much higher than that on cold tires if you want them hot when you go to lean on them. My usual approach on a 40 to 50 degree day is to come out of the pits into T2 at 70 to 80 mph accelerate up to 120 on the back straight, slow down to 70 for the bus stop and carry 70+ around the carousel into 6. By then the tires are getting warm and you can push a little closer to the limit. By the time you come out of T11 you should be wide open on hot tires. The pressure on my R888s was about the same as it was when I left the pits so I know the tires weren't hot. Even A6s wouldn't have been up to temperature.

Bill

C5ZEE06

+ 1 wanting details on that failed A6.
purchased new or used scrub tire ?
manufacture date ?
prior use / history ?

I've become a bit paranoid about purchasing used scrubs...impossible to know for sure what your working with...just saying..

drivinhard

It's not revealing, it's a disaster. Anytime you have 2 different agendas in the same group, it just doesn't work.

You can't have guys competing, and guys not competing, running in the same group. There's a completely different intensity when you are competing for 1st in class/track record/contingency $$/tires. One guy holding you up for even just a tenth, can be the difference between going home with a track record and $1500 in tires and $$, or going home with nothing.

That is not your fault btw, it's the fault of those that still want to run TT with DE groups.

It's essentially the same thing as putting DE guys out with the race groups during qualifying.

drivinhard

No offense Bill but I'm guessing from the above, that you've never done a TT, or at least led a field during a TT. The leaders do that to bunch up the field behind them, so that when the green flies, the back maker cars are 500 yrds behind them, and not 1.9 mile behind them. Otherwise, you'll catch them in 1 lap and then you're in trafffic the rest of the time.

Go flying out of the pits during a TT warm up and run 120 mph (some TT cars can't even go 120 mph, lol) and you'll be running into them right as you take the green on the first flying lap.

And the TT guys just want a couple of clean ones and then in, they aren't out there for a 25-30 min session.

There is a method to the madness.

Again, it's different agendas and it's a disaster. Nobody ends up having fun. (I realize you aren't the one in charge of that)

Lawdogg

Exactly! TT are too competitive to be on the track with people running laps. I've run TT with NASA's Midwest and Central regions and have never seen anything like what was described at the Glen. Yikes!

2K3Z06

The fun of tracking your car........ and blowing massive amounts of cash.

Sometimes i think, cocaine and hookers would be cheaper.

Bill Dearborn

Agree on the disaster. On a 3.37 mile long track there isn't much chance of catching the slower guys in a couple of laps if they all leave together and keep their speed up. Even running 2 minute laps it takes a while to catch somebody who is running 3 minute laps. The best I knew the faster guys were running 2:05s and most people in low HP cars can get around in well less than 3 minutes which is pig slow.

Bill

GeorgeZNJ

Wicked Weasel, Rouge Wave and I stopped running with NASA just because of this exact scenario. To the OP, if you have the info on the tires, please post. Three weekends ago we were running Thunderbolt and two friends reported that new, or nearly new Hoosiers had a thin "slice" mark along the tire starting about an inch down from the top and running around the sidewall and it almost looked like a re-capped tire seperating. One guy called Hoosier, he sent the tire back and they sent out a replacement, the second guy is in the process. I'm not saying that there is a problemor a defect as more info is needed. If your tires were nearly new, were they heat cycled?

RX-Ben

On the flipside, this traffic issue has been really rare this year. The TT program has regularly met it quota to get a solo run slot and I think this issue will be addressed.