0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

This is something that everyone needs to read, if you are racing your car or just taking it to car shows your engine oil is the life blood that keeps your car running.

The more aggressive your setup, or the harder you drive your car, the oil you use becomes even more important.

Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.

Doing testing and research with oil companies, Comp Cams, and also with some of our partners in the turbo production the newer 'EPA approved' oils are reducing the anti wear additive packages more so every year and are increasing the amount of detergents in the oil. While this might sound good to keep the inside of your engine clean it is not helping on keeping the oil protecting like it should.


That is why it is more important now more so than ever for those of you tracking your car, installing bigger cams, turbo's and superchargers that you run an oil that will hold up and protect your investment.

With any of our cam kits we highly suggest the use of a quality oil with a high content of Zinc and Phosphorus. For those racing the car, a racing oil should be used. Do keep in mind most racing oils are 100% detergent free and will need to be changed frequently.

Some oils to use would be RedLine, Amsoil, Joe Gibb, Brad Penn, Valvoline VR1 series.


Further Reading...
http://www.joegibbsdriven.com/trainingcenter/tech/streetoils.htm

http://www.redlineoil.com/techinfo.aspx

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...otor%20Oil.pdf

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Another tech article released by Joe Gibb today.

http://lgmotorsports.com/gallery/alb...tech_sheet.pdf

autoxer6

Here is my summary from these white papers, (and others):

All non-racing oils are EPA regulated to limit the wear additives (zinc dithiophosphates) for emissions purposes. The regulated limits does vary by the viscosity and the heavier weights are generally allowed more zinc. The low anti wear additives are primarily an issue for flat tappet cams, where the metal to metal load is very high. Roller cams do not see these high pressures.

Proper oil viscosity is the most important choice in selection your oil. It must be the correct viscosity AT YOUR OPERATING TEMPERATURE. So the same engine for street, track, or track with an oil cooler, may all need a different weight oil to have the correct viscosity at your operating temperature.

5w-30 is what LS engines are designed for and normal operating temperature is 200 deg F. To keep this same viscosity, engines operating at the following temps should use the following weight: (IMHO)
< 250 deg F xW-30
250 – 280 xW-40
>280 xW-50

The lower number x, the better the protecting at start up, even a 0w-x is too thick at start up but there are compromises to the oil for going lower. 0w-30, 10w-30, and 30w are all the same viscosity at operating temperature. So, the lower the first number the better, but there may be less anti-wear additives due to EPA regulation. (compare 0w-30 and 5w-30 mobile 1 and look at the lower ZDDP in the 0W)

The non-racing oils have detergents in them which are required for those that don’t regularly race and change their oil to keep the internals clean. These detergents do inhibit the anti-wear additives from adhering to the metal engine parts.

For a stock LS, with occasional track day use and street driving, the non-racing 5w30 is still fine.

Just my two cents, I’m not an oil expert, but I have studied tribology (the study of friction and wear) and developed lubricants for other applications.
Chris

autoxer6

I am curious why no one has developed an anti-wear oil additive. I know the major oil manufactures just want to sell you their own oil racing oil at a premium price. I think a lot of people would be well served with Mobile 1 cheap from wall mart, with a separate anti-wear additive. The zinc additives aren't that expensive, you just have to buy low production volume, high cost racing oil to get it.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

That is very important...as long as oil pressure is there. Oil pressure is key #1, after that is going to be temp.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

I have an additive from Comp Cams now that we include with all of the cams that we sell. Some of the new oils now, though have so many detergents in them that they can even wipe that out.

froggy47

Currently I have 7 qts of Mobil one 10w-30 in the car. Should I add something (zddp) to it?

Street/autox/ couple of track days a year. Oil temps from 200 street to 260 ish track.

socal 50k miles stock motor.

braknl8

Lots of truth in this thread! I ate through the nickel, down to the copper on the main bearings in a pcar m96 engine (Boxster S) at Road Atlanta, this past August. The August GA heat combined with RA being brutal on low HP cars along with my ignorance, just starting to DE, and not having an oil temp guage other than the idiot light toasted it. I was actually running mobile 1 15-50W. Wish I had known about XP9 then...but then again, that lead to me now having the Z06 and looking forward to tracking it for the first time at CMP in a couple of weeks!

Through the research on that failure I obtained an interesting graph of viscosity breakdown relative to heat. Will try to dig that up and post here.

Bills Z06

Great info Anthony! Thanks for the post. You just confirmed what a local shop owner/engine builder and I have been preaching for quite a while. I've been an Amsoil Racing Oil fan for a few years now.

93Rubie

I'm running 5W30 Mobil 1 with BG MOA. I've been known to "run" my Corvette, so I'm curious to this as well.

sebdavid

So what would you say is the minimum, or "correct" oil pressure at WOT at high RPM? And how can one correct for a low pressure? Is 30-40 psi too low at high RPM?

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Min pressure is 7 psi at idle...with no load on it. Of course that is bare min. By redline you would like to see no less than 45-50 psi

sebdavid

I was afraid you'd say that. I'm definitely not getting this. I have the high-volume oil pump. What's the fix? Using 5-40 Castrol Synthetic right now.

C66 Racing

Completely agree with Anthony's thoughts.

AMSOIL's main offerings that they recommend for flat tappet cam applications:

AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 10w30 Racing Motor Oil (Product Code RD30QT)
(zinc – 1575 ppm, phosphorus 1474 ppm)
AMSOIL Dominator Synthetic 15w50 Racing Motor Oil (Product Code RD50QT)
(zinc – 1575 ppm, phosphorus 1474 ppm)
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 20w50 (Product Code AROQT)
(zinc – 1379 ppm, phosphorus 1266 ppm)
AMSOIL SAE Synthetic Premium Protection 10w40 (Product Code AMOQT)
(zinc – 1378 ppm, phosphorus 1265 ppm)
AMSOIL Z-ROD 10w30 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRTQT)
(zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm)
AMSOIL Z-ROD 20w50 Synthetic Motor Oil (Product Code ZRFQT)
(zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm)


I use the Dominator 10w30 in my 02 Z06 (stock internals) at the track, and the Z-ROD 10w30 is a good choice for a dual use track/street car (with an oil cooler).

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Let's look a bit more in depth on why these 'micro brew' oils are so much better than say a normal Mobile 1.

Within the U.S. right now you may think you only have the choice of conventional and synthetic engine oils to choose from. While that is partially true the base stock that the oil is produced from can also radically change the properties of the oil itself, synthetic or not.

Within the Synthetic oils you have three classifications, Group 3, Group 4, and Group 5 oils. Group 3 oils are re-refined petroleum products and are the least expensive until recently they could not be classified as synthetic. Group 4 oils are PAO oils (Poly-Alpha-Olefine) and they are a synthesized petroleum product that has better protection against heat, oxidation, and better flow at low temperatures. The draw back to this oil is they need plenty of oil pressure to provide an effective protection film on the parts they protect. Both Group 3 and Group 4 oils are mineral based.

Lastly we have the Group 5 oils, which are Ester based (diester, polyoesters, and complex esters) which are vegetable and animal based

Red Line and Motul engine oils are currently the only two engine oils you can obtain that start from a Synthetic Ester base. This Ester base forms and electro-chemical bond with your engine components so there is an even less chance of metal to metal contact on cold start up or low oil pressure conditions. This bond is something that the Group 3 and Group 4 oils do not have because of their base material make up even if they have a higher level of ZDDP additives. The other big benefit of an Ester based oil is that they have very little in the way of deposits if they do burn under extreme conditions so there is no build up inside hot engine parts, and this is especially important for those running turbos on their cars.


Further reading on Esters
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...94#Post1252272

froggy47

Anyone have a suggestion on post #7. I normally use Redline, but a shop put the M1 10w-30 in and I hate to dump 7qt.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

It would not hurt to put some of the additive in it.

A few of the guys are doing the Blackstone lab reports now. That might not be a bad way to go for some of you guys. Would be an easy way to tell how the engine is wearing. With the race cars we have filters on the pressure and return sides so we can see what is going in and out of the engine on both sides and it makes easy work to at least inspect what is going on. To top it off, we are changing engines typically every 35-40 hrs of run time.

froggy47

V4kerker

LG quote:
Over the last 10 years, We have recorded approximately 10 failed lifters from customers in the US with our cam kits. We sell on average 150-200 cam kits per year, and more cams by themselves. 6 of these have been in the last 12 months.

I'd like to know what part of the lifter failed. Top, bottom or side. Were the lifters all the same styles and same or different motors?
6 failed in 12 months and 4 only during 9 years what changed? Looks like something had to change 13 months ago to make this happen.

V4kerker

#1 is the hydrodynamic wedge/fluid film to prevent metal to metal contact. This is done by having the proper oil pressure for the given load at the loaded surface area and proper viscosity for given operating temp to have good oil flow and shear weight.

I'm just guessing but I think the oil wedge/film were the cam lobe and lifter meet is probably the hardest to maintain at high rpm's. How does the oil get supplied to the cam lobe? I really don't know.