sebdavid

DISCLAIMER: NO CORVETTE CONTENT

I spend about half my time in France for work. As a certified addict, and because the roads and tracks here are awesome, I have decided to buy a fun used cheap car, for track and mountain road use only. I transferred the money, ready to pull the trigger. Only problem is I have two choices and I don't know what to do.

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IN THE FWD CORNER...

Originally, I was going for the Renaultsport Clio 200hp (2006+) with the Cup chassis. Small, light car, perfect to have some fun on the cheap, nothing to modify for track work. I drove one at the 'ring and it was fun enough. HOWEVER, for around the same prices, and in the same model years, with the same kind of mileage, I could get a Renaultsport Megane R26 F1 Team 230hp. It's the bigger sister and it's faster. Wy are they the same price? The new Clio is only coming out right now, while the new Megane has been out for 1-2 years, including the RS versions, so prices of the old generation have dropped further.

One one hand, the Clio is lighter (2654lbs) than the Megane (2965lbs), but the Megane is quite a bit more powerful and has a limited-slip diff, on top of being the next model up, meaning it'll be nicer to drive outside of the track, which is nice. The Megane should be a few seconds faster around a track, but may need brake ducts since it has the same brakes but more power and weight.

That's the first hesitation. Then:

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IN THE RWD CORNER...

I had the stupid idea to check out what a Euro E36 BMW M3 cost. Remember: in Europe, there were two engines, 3.0L 281hp, and 3.2L 316hp. Not like the E36 M3 we got in North America. 3220lbs according to the specs.

Well, the interesting thing is that car is ALSO in the same price range! Usually with mileages between 100,000 and 150,000km, compared to 75,000 to 120,000km for the two other cars. Of course, we're talking about a car that is between 10 and 15 years older than the others, mind you.

To complicate things, there are some higher-mileage early E46 M3s in the same prices, but they seem iffy so I'll avoid them.

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You'll tell me that this is the kind of problem everyone would love to have, and you'd be right. So that's why I'm sharing it with you! Help me choose which car I will use to conquer the greatest tracks and the greatest roads in the world!

The decision factors:

- I already know the M3. I had one for years, not the same engine obviously, but still, the novelty aspect of the two others is interesting. On the other hand, it's easier to buy and maintain a car you know well. Dead heat.

- I am a staunch supporter of rear wheel drive as the best setup for a fun car. On the other hand, I already have the 'vette to have fun with back home. It would be nice to get more familiar with the opposite platform (light and low power rather than heavy and full of horses), but I'm afraid of getting bored... although I could easily sell and get back to my first love. Nil.

- I would LOVE to minimize maintenance and repairs. I'm not in France all the time, and when I am I am working my butt off. I have no time to take care of a fussy car. Plus, there's the price of parts and labor; a BMW remains a BMW no matter how old it is, and I don't know a local specialist. Here, the advantage goes to the two cars that are NOT close to 20 years old!

- There will surely be a lot of M3s up for sale with shady histories. Some of them could be imported, others could be lacking some maintenance records, etc. whereas the Clio and Megane will never be grey imports and their history will usually be clearer as I'd often be dealing with the original or second owner. Here again, advantage Renault.

- I love to go fast! And I love power oversteer. Advantage: M3.

And then, if the FWD side wins: Clio or Megane? Not easy...

So that's where I stand right now. If you want to take a look, the website to browse is leboncoin.fr, it's the local reference for used cars. I am in Auvergne, FYI.

Help me!

C5inWV

You have several good choices. No wrong decision. You'll just have to pull the trigger and make the most of any that you choose.
Since you've already done the BMW, I'd try for a new experience.
I liked the Alfa on the site you listed. Obvous possiblities would be a Mini or Abarth, but they don't have alot of torque. I like Audi, but you'd probably have to find an S4 or TTS for thrills. A TTRS is probably still $$. I would also consider a Cayman or Mercedes coupe/convertible w/ forced induction. Any Subaru's over there?
I have had to make similar decisions in the past; that is why there are 6 cars in my driveway.

sebdavid

Thanks for the response! I have hated all Audis I've been in apart from the V8 RS4 and the R8, so that's out. A Subaru is no fun except when it gets snowy or icy. Cayman too expensive.

Really, the only other car I could think of that would fit the bill is the MR2, here called MR-S, but with 140hp, even at 2,200lbs I'm afraid it'll just be too slow.

sebdavid

Update: through the magic of Twitter, Chris Harris advised me to get the Megane.

VetteDrmr

Seb, seems like you've just about answered the question yourself. Get one of the cars you can't get in the US!

Have fun!
Mike

sebdavid

I know, I guess I'm just too tempted by the Euro M3, plus I love RWD, but then again, it's not like I'm MARRYING the car, I can always sell it if it becomes boring... I'm leaning towards the reasonable FWD side of things.

But then, Clio or Megane? Light, agile, N/A purity, or speed and LSD?

VetteDrmr

LSD, always! (wait, that doesn't sound right). Especially FWD even more than RWD.

SOO easy for me to spend someone else's money!

Have a good one,
Mike

sebdavid

I have to say I wasn't missing the LSD that much in the small Clio, BUT it was a the 'ring which is mostly very high-speed AND since I didn't know the track at all ond only did 2 laps, I wasn't pushing it much.

I do think the LSD is kind of a must-have.

TorontoC6

Hey Seb, go for the Megane with the LSD and more power. When in France, do the French car.

Where are you working in France?

P.S. Any chance you will joining us again at Watkins in the spring?

Ed.

sebdavid

I'm in Clermont-Ferrand, which is the town Michelin is headquartered at.

I think you're right and I'm leaning towards the Megane.

If I'm on the right continent, I'll be going along with you guys to the Glen for sure!

Z06trackman

I have about 30 laps at 'The Ring, and I have driven the Clio RS and the Megan R26 there. From your list I would buy the Megan R26 hands down! It is an amazing car, perfect for 'The Ring, and is ready for slicks out of the box. As a bonus, it willl be cheaper to run than the heavier M3.

sebdavid

Perfect advice, thank you! Are you sure you didn't drive the R26R though? That's what RSR Nurburg (and others) rent at the 'ring. The R26 is the "normal" version of that car, much less expensive used as it's not as rare.

I'm pretty much settling on the Megane now.

krisa9977

Megane is a great car, but after you have more then 50 laps at the Ring it becomes boring to drive ANY FWD. Driving other tracks it might be even worse, especially if you already own Z06.

You buy 13-15K Euro M3 E46, put Pagid RS19 brake pads and KW Competition 2 way(about 3000 Euro) or Bilstein Comp suspension, get rid of two heavy seats(40 kg each) and put two buckets seats and Dunlop Direzza 3g tires and you'll have a car that capable 7:30 BTG lap time on a tourist day!!!


One of mine E46 M3 (I've got three of them) I bought for 11000 Euros with 175000 km. Now car has a little more then 200000 km. 99.8% it was driven at the Ring. For almost 30000 km at the Ring I had no major problems with the car!

sebdavid

Thanks for the input, you're right on all counts. However, it will take me a while to get to 50 laps of the 'ring. I don't live right next to it! For at least 2 years, probably more, I'll be trying all kinds of different race tracks, in France and other countries. Sure, I'll probably go to the 'ring a few times, but it won't be the only track I run.

And the E46 you're talking about is out of my budget. I want to buy in France, and here I can only find 1-2 E46 M3s at the very top of my budget (€14,000), and they have high mileage and weird history. Don't forget prices of German cars in Germany are lower than in France!

There are a few more E36 M3s but that car is getting quite old and I need something that is reliable, as I don't have time to take care of it, and don't want to spend more money than I budgeted. All maintenance will be done by a shop, not by me (except maybe changing brake pads, fluid, etc.).

With the Megane, I can buy a nice R26 with reasonable mileage for less than my budget and have some left over for tires, brakes, and maybe 1-2 maintenance items. This is going to be my third car, not counting the bikes. My budget is getting a little stretched!

Evntually, I think yes, I might go for the E46 M3, or maybe a more track-focused car, and in the long term, I'd like to have a GT3 here in Europe as I think it's the perfect car for this continent, but for now I need to stay reasonable, unfortunately...

Z06trackman

Yes, the Megane R26.R from RSR Nurburg. krisa9977 seems to have a good thing going with his M3s though...

sebdavid

Yeah, that's what I thought. There are some significant track-oriented differences between an R26 and an R26R.

Although I found this: http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/383249073.htm?ca=3_s

Wouldn't be very reasonable to buy (little resale value) but it's track-ready and not expensive. I'm tempted. I'm guessing it would be much less fun on the road, though, and this would be a mountain road car as well as a track car.

M3 (especially E46) too expensive to buy and maintain for my budget, but would be a great choice.

sothpaw2

Go with the most reliable option that you can afford. If you can afford it, the Clio sounds like it's new so maybe it'd have a warranty. It's also the lightest. Weight is soooo important to handling and fun. I wouldn't get anything over 3000 lb.

sebdavid

Megane or Clio would be under 3,000lbs. Both similar years so no warranty for either. Pretty set on Megane now which should be reliable if stock.

sebdavid

Update: found a nice Megane R26 with the R26.R's carbon hood and titanium exhaust (reminds me of my Z06!). Low price, all maintenance done, should be reliable as it is 100% stock apart from those two add-ons.

Checked the history with Renault, it had a bit of work done to the engine but that was 40,000km ago, and no problem since, so I guess that's fixed. It also probably had a curbing impact because a wheel was replaced along with some parts on the front right, I will check everything is symmetrical and the car tracks true.

Going to pick it up this weekend. Will post a picture. And then, on to European tracks and roads!

DScamp

Awesome! Cant wait to see the pictures!