reece146

I was curious, are there was any real noticable differences between the ABS systems on the C5Z vs the C6Z that a driver would notice?

Intended usage would be autocross, HDPE and just general touring around on public roads.

Bill Dearborn

I haven't noticed any differences in operation. C5 and C6 are both 4 channel ABS systems. GM sets the performance requirements and I think they control the software algorithms used in the systems. Major differences across years is in the EBCM technology and suppliers. 09 and up get the Bosch EBCM which is considerably lower in cost than the several previous versions of Delphi EBCMs which were used from 97-08.

Bill

reece146

Ok, good to know. I've noticed generational changes in other makes... most annoyingly things like ABS triggering on brake dive while hitting a pot hole and light to moderate braking.

Bill Dearborn

I sort of doubt those things were due to the ABS itself. If ABS triggers on brake dive that particular vehicle must have been unloading the rear wheels to the point they were tending to lock up. Pot holes will cause ABS to activate as they tend to induce speed variations in single wheels which can trigger ABS at that wheel and that wheel alone. All of my cars implemented with ABS applications from my 86 Vette to my 08 Vette and 08 Malibu have had that happen.

Bill

reece146

Nah, like 1/10th performance envelope stuff, reproducible and the later car did not do the same thing. Smelled like a software issue to me.

But, anyway, thanks for the info. Now to decide what to buy.

ScaryFast

Delphi did the C5, Bosch has had the EBCM since the C6 in '05.

ABS/ESC/TCS technology has improved considerably over the last 10 years. The new systems are "better" by a mile. Better for racing? Maybe not. But better from a reliability, control, noise, and failsafe perspective? Absolutely.

Keep in mind the government (NHSTA) defines base performance, the OEM's only tune in the "feel" of the system.

rustyguns

that is why i think C5 is better for racing

autoxer6

For autocross, there is a big difference between the C5 and C6 ABS. My #1 issue with competing nationally with a C5 is the ABS. Big cars bennefit from trail braking, and the C5 system triggers the low traction (ice mode, hard pedal, whatever you want to call it) scenario when the rear wheels get light and the steer wheel angle is high. The ABS limits breaking and you end up WAY off line from where you want to be. It limits what you can do with car set up and shocks, line choice, shifting, and braking habits have to be adjusted.

Many people dont have this issue. I think that is mainly due to how agressive you enter corners and trail brake. I enter very agressively and trail brake as much as possible. Also, I have never had any concerns with the ABS on a road course, the system works fine there.

The Delphi ABS is the main reason why I want a C6 Grand Sport for SCCA super stock.

Chris Shay

Bedouin

Wait, didn't scaryfast say the ABS is a Bosch system, not Delphi, in the '05-'12 C6's, which would include the GS?

cleanerPA

That's completely wrong- Delphi is the manufacturer of brake components in the C6 until 2009. 2009 C6s use Bosch brake systems.

rustyguns

yeah i had same problem, it called Ice Mode. Unfortunately I corner just like you, caused me to go off track at a very hi speed
I changed to different pads and it happens less often now, Aggressive High initial bite racing pads ( especially rears) will put you in ice mode with our type of driving
But the C6 has ice mode too and the C6 active handling is much more controlling. I doubt you run with active handling on, but for those that do, the C5 will let you go a lot faster than the C6 with all the nannies on.

At the end of the day your C5 brakes will be metal to metal too lol

reece146

Great information, guys!

The C5 is getting up there in years... has anyone figured out how to disable ice mode in the software?

acrace

Correct. '09 up C6s have a Bosch ABS system. So Chris won't be able to get a GS with a Delphi ABS system.

autoxer6

I have only autocrossed lightly modded base C6. I didn't have any problems with the system. I cant say it is perfect, but it seems MUCH better and tolerated trail breaking much more.

I dont ever use the stability or traction control on a track so I dont have a C5 to C6 comparison.

You cant disable the "ice mode" it's just the ABS programming trying to adapt to a low traction situation. Rumor is that disabling the yaw sensor does help reduce the ice mode in corners, but this will also disable stability control if that matters to you. It isn't SCCA stock class legal so I never bothered trying.

I still want a Grand Sport. I'm just not willing to pay for one.