Should I ditch my supercharger and go N/A?
04-23-2013, 12:19 AM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Should I ditch my supercharger and go N/A?
Hey guys,
This seems like most appropriate place to put this thread.
Currently my car has an A&A supercharger kit pushing 10 psi with meth putting down 622RWHP. After going to Thunderhill about a month ago (I didn't have the meth kit) I really want to focus my attention on tracking the car atleast 5-6 times a year along with some Auto-X.
Should I ditch the SC and go with a heads/cam or just a cam only set up? I've always wanted a bad *** street car and I have a ton of work into it so it's a big decision for me.
Thanks.
This seems like most appropriate place to put this thread.
Currently my car has an A&A supercharger kit pushing 10 psi with meth putting down 622RWHP. After going to Thunderhill about a month ago (I didn't have the meth kit) I really want to focus my attention on tracking the car atleast 5-6 times a year along with some Auto-X.
Should I ditch the SC and go with a heads/cam or just a cam only set up? I've always wanted a bad *** street car and I have a ton of work into it so it's a big decision for me.
Thanks.
04-23-2013, 08:22 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
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Don't let the ZR1 guys see this...........
In reality I have a supercharged C6 and its a bear to keep cool.......with the proper cooling (dual coolers up front) you would be fine. But for overall durability a N/A is better.........if your doing it for fun 5-6 times a year you would be fine.......
In reality I have a supercharged C6 and its a bear to keep cool.......with the proper cooling (dual coolers up front) you would be fine. But for overall durability a N/A is better.........if your doing it for fun 5-6 times a year you would be fine.......
04-23-2013, 09:22 AM
#4
Racer
04-23-2013, 11:27 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
The problem with the blower is heat, but that's also dependent on boost and intercooler capability. The problem with the cam is valve springs and life. Neither is particularly good on a road course.
Drag racing is pretty forgiving on heat capacity and valve train life. That is, you can get away with a lot more aggressive cams and blowers since you don't run them at high power and rpm for very long. On a road course you are at high power and rpm for most of the time and that is a lot harder on the valve train. In addition you want to make sure that the cam doesn't come in and upset the car if you get below it and it hits on corner exit.
There are some folks running boosted systems on the track, but, like the ZR1, they are using intercoolers and not running a ton of boost. Also, bigger radiators, higher capacity lube systems and oil coolers are also going to be required, stuff you don't need if you are just going to hammer it for 8 or 10 seconds at a time.
Similarily there are some folks running hotter than stock cams on the track, but really the stock cam in LS6 is pretty aggressive for a road racing cam and the valve spring failures it sees say a lot about the subject.
Bottom line is that it can be done, but it takes a lot of engineering and money to do it reliably and there's a long history of broken motors behind those who didn't spend a lot of money and do it right.
Drag racing is pretty forgiving on heat capacity and valve train life. That is, you can get away with a lot more aggressive cams and blowers since you don't run them at high power and rpm for very long. On a road course you are at high power and rpm for most of the time and that is a lot harder on the valve train. In addition you want to make sure that the cam doesn't come in and upset the car if you get below it and it hits on corner exit.
There are some folks running boosted systems on the track, but, like the ZR1, they are using intercoolers and not running a ton of boost. Also, bigger radiators, higher capacity lube systems and oil coolers are also going to be required, stuff you don't need if you are just going to hammer it for 8 or 10 seconds at a time.
Similarily there are some folks running hotter than stock cams on the track, but really the stock cam in LS6 is pretty aggressive for a road racing cam and the valve spring failures it sees say a lot about the subject.
Bottom line is that it can be done, but it takes a lot of engineering and money to do it reliably and there's a long history of broken motors behind those who didn't spend a lot of money and do it right.
04-23-2013, 01:00 PM
#6
Drifting
Was that your first time? If you are just starting out, consider buying something with less power to start with, whether its a daily driver or something cheap like a miata or e36 M3
04-23-2013, 01:02 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2006
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The problem with the blower is heat, but that's also dependent on boost and intercooler capability. The problem with the cam is valve springs and life. Neither is particularly good on a road course.
Drag racing is pretty forgiving on heat capacity and valve train life. That is, you can get away with a lot more aggressive cams and blowers since you don't run them at high power and rpm for very long. On a road course you are at high power and rpm for most of the time and that is a lot harder on the valve train. In addition you want to make sure that the cam doesn't come in and upset the car if you get below it and it hits on corner exit.
There are some folks running boosted systems on the track, but, like the ZR1, they are using intercoolers and not running a ton of boost. Also, bigger radiators, higher capacity lube systems and oil coolers are also going to be required, stuff you don't need if you are just going to hammer it for 8 or 10 seconds at a time.
Similarily there are some folks running hotter than stock cams on the track, but really the stock cam in LS6 is pretty aggressive for a road racing cam and the valve spring failures it sees say a lot about the subject.
Bottom line is that it can be done, but it takes a lot of engineering and money to do it reliably and there's a long history of broken motors behind those who didn't spend a lot of money and do it right.
Drag racing is pretty forgiving on heat capacity and valve train life. That is, you can get away with a lot more aggressive cams and blowers since you don't run them at high power and rpm for very long. On a road course you are at high power and rpm for most of the time and that is a lot harder on the valve train. In addition you want to make sure that the cam doesn't come in and upset the car if you get below it and it hits on corner exit.
There are some folks running boosted systems on the track, but, like the ZR1, they are using intercoolers and not running a ton of boost. Also, bigger radiators, higher capacity lube systems and oil coolers are also going to be required, stuff you don't need if you are just going to hammer it for 8 or 10 seconds at a time.
Similarily there are some folks running hotter than stock cams on the track, but really the stock cam in LS6 is pretty aggressive for a road racing cam and the valve spring failures it sees say a lot about the subject.
Bottom line is that it can be done, but it takes a lot of engineering and money to do it reliably and there's a long history of broken motors behind those who didn't spend a lot of money and do it right.
with proper cooling and minimal boost (6psi) you should be fine...without proper cooling and big boost you will have a big risk of problems...
04-22-2015, 10:56 AM
#9
Drifting
04-22-2015, 11:19 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
He is talking about the power curve. If your comming into the power curve on corner exit things can go sideways fast.
I run a NA setup with around the same RWHP. It's a torque box and requires a lot of throttle management.
I run a NA setup with around the same RWHP. It's a torque box and requires a lot of throttle management.
04-22-2015, 01:36 PM
#11
Racer
Member Since: May 2010
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Really depends on your setup. I had a student with a centrifugal supercharger that would get near 300deg oil temps after three laps on track. We'd do a cool down lap, another hot lap, cool down, hot, etc. I think it got pretty frustrating for the student.
I would personally run a NA motor. But if you're cooling system can handle it, the more power to you
I would personally run a NA motor. But if you're cooling system can handle it, the more power to you
04-22-2015, 01:54 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
There's a supercharged 98 that runs in our group... stock internals, but only about 5psi using 91oct. In 95deg ambient for 20min his only "back off" maybe a higher gear for lap or 2 and this is more clutch related I think. He seems to have little issue with cooling and he's very fast.
04-22-2015, 03:49 PM
#13
I think concentrating on being smooth, learning the line, braking, car control and so on will soak up one full season. Having a blower on there would be distracting (thinking about it, watching temps), but I don't think you need to spend to swap it before doing a season. Leave it until it becomes a problem.
04-22-2015, 06:21 PM
#14
Former Vendor
Member Since: Aug 2005
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
I would as well. Removes weight, complexity, and will better balance out the car.
ZR1's can do it...but it takes work to get those cars to be consistent and not tear stuff up too, but they were designed to be that way stock and still have problems.
You'll run into heat issues, belt slip, front bearing wear, meth controls. It can be done, don't get me wrong but if you are just starting and want to do it, just more to worry about than focusing on driving.
If you want to keep it on there.....turn the boost down a bit.
ZR1's can do it...but it takes work to get those cars to be consistent and not tear stuff up too, but they were designed to be that way stock and still have problems.
You'll run into heat issues, belt slip, front bearing wear, meth controls. It can be done, don't get me wrong but if you are just starting and want to do it, just more to worry about than focusing on driving.
If you want to keep it on there.....turn the boost down a bit.
04-23-2015, 10:45 AM
#16
Drifting
Screamin' Z, thanks!
04-25-2015, 01:59 PM
#18
Why not keep it as is and see how it runs? What's the prime use for the car? If it's your DD or a car you enjoy on the street there is no point sacrificing all that for 5-6 Track events.
Is the car tuned for the meth? If so I would get that undo as it probably not the safest. . You can map the engine for high intake temps (try running an OEM car in 130F heat and doing full hill climbs and hot restarts) but if the meth pump fails you risk popping the engine. You could run water injection if you wanted to, but just putting some decent fuel in it would be a better option and simpler. Alky often is used as a fuel supplement more than actually having any real impact on IATs or combustion temps. Saturated IAT sensors can read what you want!
Try shifting a little early and just taking it steady on the engine and letting the chassis do the work. If you want to mod the car you can look at fitting a decent oil cooler (the twin ones look great!), fitting the ECS intercooler (not full width of the rad), and ensuring the shroud is tight (so the air has to go through the rad).
Just my opinion.
Is the car tuned for the meth? If so I would get that undo as it probably not the safest. . You can map the engine for high intake temps (try running an OEM car in 130F heat and doing full hill climbs and hot restarts) but if the meth pump fails you risk popping the engine. You could run water injection if you wanted to, but just putting some decent fuel in it would be a better option and simpler. Alky often is used as a fuel supplement more than actually having any real impact on IATs or combustion temps. Saturated IAT sensors can read what you want!
Try shifting a little early and just taking it steady on the engine and letting the chassis do the work. If you want to mod the car you can look at fitting a decent oil cooler (the twin ones look great!), fitting the ECS intercooler (not full width of the rad), and ensuring the shroud is tight (so the air has to go through the rad).
Just my opinion.
05-04-2015, 06:32 PM
#20
Instructor
Don't do it, you'd have to change screen name.
Seriously, there are so many changes necessary to make a worthwhile track car, just turn down the boost and run that until you decide if you want to go all in or just continue as is. 4-5 lbs of boost makes so much less heat then 10lbs cooling shouldn't be too bad, but you should have a great track experience.
You didn't mention anything about brakes or tires, but obviously those are the areas to concentrate on.
Seriously, there are so many changes necessary to make a worthwhile track car, just turn down the boost and run that until you decide if you want to go all in or just continue as is. 4-5 lbs of boost makes so much less heat then 10lbs cooling shouldn't be too bad, but you should have a great track experience.
You didn't mention anything about brakes or tires, but obviously those are the areas to concentrate on.