Dynamite76

I am going to be running a HPDE at Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit in May, probably just one day. I May run 1 or 2 more events at VIR and Shenandoah again this year, (hopefully). I have new shocks and A-arms with bushings to install. Will flush/bleed the brake system with ATE Blue unless someone suggest otherwise.

Since I might only be running in this one event I am trying to decide if I want to purchase Hawk HPS street pads front/rear and front only new tires (Continental Extreme Contact DW; on sale $145 for 255/45ZR17). I may also needs new rotors and would purchase Centric Plain 120 Series Rotors for around $50 a piece.

Where I really need advice is; are the Hawk HPS pads going to disappoint? Each session is about 30 minutes and there are 4 on the schedule. I am good with getting in a few hard laps per session (later braking) and then working on other techniques like throttle control, being smooth, and learning the line while braking a bit early. Also, tire advice/recommendations welcome (size, brand, etc.). I only have the 4 rims that are on the car.

Last year I took the C4 to the track after recently purchasing it and was disappointed in myself for not changing out the brake pads. Due to severe de-gassing I was only ran 2 half sessions. I could get in about one hard lap and then I was a bit of a speed bump after that.

Thanks!!

Paul

Rob31

I have not used the HPS . But I dont think its going to last a hard 30 min. session
I do use the Super Blue .
What wheels ? get some air flow over the rotor (Air ducts )

Hawk blues are more suited for a trackday

Aardwolf

I had a lot of fade with HPS but that taught me some things about how to conserve brakes. They are not a track pad for the tracks I run. I wouldn't use 255 tires, I would go 285 on all four which I've had before on stock rims. Brand, I would look around for some scrubs, 888's maybe, $75-100 a piece.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

You should run the Carbotech XP10 on the front and XP8 on the rear. They can be safely driven on the street with no issue. I will be happy to help you give me a call at 216-780-8825.

Xp10 $210 Xp8 $162 Less 5% forum discount.

Kubs

I am much happier with Carbotechs than I was with Hawk. Similar bite but the Carbotechs are much more rotor friendly and at times a little quieter.

Bill32

You may be better off with the Carbotechs.

Most HPDE drivers overuse the brakes by a wide margin and the HPS are a lower temp pad.

I plan to switch to Carbo's for my next set just to see how well they do but I haven't had a problem with HPS in a 30 minute session.

rfn026

I'm more concerned about the tires than I am about the brakes. I run 275s and 315s on my C4. I like the idea of 285s on stock wheels. I also like the idea of scrubs if you're financially challenged.

You may have more of a problem with your braking technique than the brand of pad. Brake pads are really good today. We not stuck in the days of Ferodo Ds-11s. I did a column a few months back in Vintage Motorsport magazine on brake pad selection. Basically it said that you should listen to the people who make the brake pads

Let Carbotech pick your pad and also ask them how you should use the brake pedal.

Richard Newton
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Dynamite76

After more research and based on responses HPS are out. I would love to have Carbotech brake pads however $400 for pads isn't in my budget. I am considering HP Plus I can get for $120/100 front/rear or EBC Yellow pads for about the same. As far as tires; I might have to work with what I have which are Fuzion ZR1's showing a small amout of dry rot on front and Firehawk Wide Ovals in good shape on the rear.

Bill Dearborn

You don't mention whether or not you have the big brake option on the car. If you are running the 12 inch rotors you will be challenged quickly no matter which pads you have. I learned a lot about driving the Glen with no brakes when I started doing HPDEs with my 86. Best I could do was 3 laps before the brakes over heated and the car wouldn't slow properly. After that it was a no brake exercise. That was with a car that had 230 HP and could only hit 125.

You definitely need to address the tires. No way would I drive the car on the street with dry rotted tires let alone run it at speed on a track. Dump front and rears and get matching tires so the handling characteristics are the same. If you end up with your best handling tires on the front or you will get some interesting handling issues.

How is your cooling system? How old are the cooling system hoses? A lot of old cars hit the track and then pop a hose or have some other cooling system issue. When was the last time the coolant was flushed?

Since you have a car with an LT engine do you have an issue with coolant dripping from the water pump onto the Optispark (ignition module)?

Pull the cover off the top of the radiator and see how much dirt has accumulated between the radiator and the AC condenser. My 86 had several inches piled up between the two when I inspected it and the car was only 6 years old at the time. That was a year before your car was built.

Make sure your other fluids are topped off or changed if they haven't been changed in a while.

What kind of condition are your power steering hoses? Do you have any issues with the steering rack and is there any seepage from it or the PS pump? Nothing like dumping a lot of PS fluid all over the track. Doesn't usually bother you but the guy behind you has an interesting time when he hits it.

Keep an eye on your Power Steering reservoir. They tend to get hot and the plastic distorts so the cap doesn't seal the reservoir. Not something that usually happens in one day but over a series of events. It was bad enough the aftermarket used to sell metal reservoirs for track guys.

Bill

Bill32

Just so you know, the HP+ are a semi-race pad. They are designed to get you home from a track day easily. But, they work better warmed up than when they are cold (daily driving) and they can squeal.
However, some guys do run them on the street.
From Hawk:
Warning! Due to the dramatic friction levels produced by this product to achieve "race-level" braking, rotor wear, noise, dust, and pad life may be affected.

Also, the dry rot thing - not good.
It may even cause you a problem during tech inspection. Depends on what it looks like. My tech inspectors (SCCA) would take a real close look at that before letting you on the track.

Dynamite76

I haven't seen many reviews for the EBC Yellow Stuff pads on Corvette Forum. As far as tech, the consensus was good enough to pass however if they start chunking then I have an issue. I suppose with better brakes though I'll need to consider the increased loads on the tires.

I don't have an issue changing pads out the day before I go to the track or at track but it is about the $$$.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Agreed. HP+ would be a much better option, over the HPS pads, and they are still very street-able.

Dynamite76

Thanks for your responses. I did go with EBC Yellow Stuff pads due to the limited number of track time for this year, new rotors and yes, will be getting new front tires.

c4cruiser

Bill Dearborn has made some excellent points regarding basic car prep for track days. It would be a good idea to do what is listed to get the car ready.

It would be best to have the same tires at all 4 corners. Not every tire manufacturer use similar compounds in their tires. Some tires companies will use compounds for the best treadwear, others will use compounds for improved handling. Mixing different tires for high speeds like you see at HPDE's can become a handling problem. If your budget allows, try to get a set of tires that are built more for high performance driving.

For brakes, always do a flush before a track day. I use ATE Super Blue and ATE Typ200 fluids. They are the same DOT4 fluid, just different colors. That way I can tell when I'm done with a flush as the color will change as fluid comes out the caliper bleed screw.

Another thing to consider if you haven't done so already, is replacing the stock rubber brake lines with stainless flex lines. Goodridge and Earl's are both good lines. Contact Doug Rippie Motorsports for a set.

Don't know much about the EBC brake pads but they are much different compared to years ago. I had installed a set of the older EBC GreenStuff pads on a '92 and at the end of one track day at Portland (OR) Int'l Raceway, they were down to the backing plates

Stock rotors will work fine but you should consider some cooling ducts for the front brakes. Follow the install instructions for the EBC pads carefully. They may require a bedding process to make sure pad material transfers from the pads to the new rotors.

Consider flushing the power steering fluid and replace with something like Red Line Synthetic PS fluid. Original stock pumps with old stock fluids may overheat on some tracks and you will get lots of whine from the pump. IF the car doesn't have a PS fluid cooler, you may want to think of getting an aftermarket cooler.

Dynamite76

Thanks Bill, c4cruiser and everyone else for responding. I just pulled the trigger on a set of Nitto nt555's; stock sizing. I replaced the radiator last year with cheep Chinese supposed to be dual core but is only really a single. All hoses seem to be acceptable at this time; some of that was replaced by PO. Will consider flushing power steering fluid and believe I also need to replace gear and axle oil. Just ordered 2 new Timken front axel bearings as well as I am waiting for 4 new rotors to arrive; EBC Yellow stuff pads to put on them. Also replaced all 4 A-arms with ball joints and bushings, outer tie rod ends on front and 4 new Z51 Bilstein shocks all the way around. Oh, I also replaced the spark plugs (old ones had about 60k and what a difference it made) and plug wires.

I hope there isn't anything I missed because I am pretty much broke and soon to be in the dog house once my girlfriend finds out how much I spent today between the tires, alignment service and bearings.

jaa1992

When EBC "changed" their pad compound several years ago I was "lucky" enough to get a set of yellowstuff to try. I hated those pads with a passion.

Before my car became dedicated to track duty I ran the Carbotech XP10/8 combo and liked them alot until I moved to the 12/10 combo.

Shoot I love the carbotech pads so much I even have them on my DD v6 Camaro. XP8 on all 4 corners. Little noisy when its cold out, but they work. I wind up doing a few track days with it when I'm instructing.

Dynamite76

Well, my budget started at about $500 for 2 front tires, brakes and ATE Blue as I had already purchased the shocks and A-arms. I should have just gone with Carbotech but at the time was trying to stick to budget.

jaa1992

For an HPDE you should be OK if you get them bedded in.
For Time Trials I had to back my brake point 100 ft from where I was applying the carbotechs. They just always felt like they were not going to slow the car down for me.