Shocks wearing out
10-01-2013, 07:12 AM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Shocks wearing out
I have an 04 Z with 43K on the clock which is now a track only car. I bought it from a guy who was using it as an autocross car the past 3 years and put about 10000 miles on it before I had it. He put Pfadt shocks on it (not sure what kind, pic attached) and I've got 7 track days on it this year.
I feel like the shocks might be starting to wear out. The car doesn't "spring" when it goes over bumps, but that car seems to bottom out a lot more than it ever used to, and it bottoms out hard. When I first got the car I'd ride over some train tracks by my work without issue, and now the thing slams into the bottom of the shocks. Last weekend at Tremblant there are a couple of high speed turns where the car was definitely slamming into the bump stops.
My questions are - could these shocks really have worn out that quickly? Should I turn the firmness up on them to finish the last 4 track days of the year (I think they're in the middle now)? Should I replace them this off season and if so with what? Again this car is full track and I plan to race in TTs next year and Wheel to Wheel the following year so street manners are not an issue. What do you guys think?
I feel like the shocks might be starting to wear out. The car doesn't "spring" when it goes over bumps, but that car seems to bottom out a lot more than it ever used to, and it bottoms out hard. When I first got the car I'd ride over some train tracks by my work without issue, and now the thing slams into the bottom of the shocks. Last weekend at Tremblant there are a couple of high speed turns where the car was definitely slamming into the bump stops.
My questions are - could these shocks really have worn out that quickly? Should I turn the firmness up on them to finish the last 4 track days of the year (I think they're in the middle now)? Should I replace them this off season and if so with what? Again this car is full track and I plan to race in TTs next year and Wheel to Wheel the following year so street manners are not an issue. What do you guys think?
Last edited by StreetSpeed; 10-02-2013 at 07:19 AM.
10-01-2013, 11:01 AM
#3
Drifting
They told me they don't service them. I tried to get a busted stud repaired and I had to order another set (not just one). This was a couple years ago back when they still sold them.
10-01-2013, 11:05 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Shocks do were out, much faster than most people think.
Sounds like you can't determine the exact miles on the Pfadt's so, you're in the dark. And mileage isn't a great way to determine the condition of the shocks anyway.
With your suspension acting the way it is, you need to completely go over everything to make sure nothing else is wrong (for safety).
The only way to know the condition of the shocks is to have them dynoed (about $25 each), aside from pulling them of and finding out that they are shot, easily moved in and out.
You're best bet is to call Pfadt and talk to them about the shocks (after you pull one and inspect.
Just FYI, guys that seriously race usually have the shocks dynoed once a year, around 1,200 miles and probably will have those rebuilt.
Sounds like you can't determine the exact miles on the Pfadt's so, you're in the dark. And mileage isn't a great way to determine the condition of the shocks anyway.
With your suspension acting the way it is, you need to completely go over everything to make sure nothing else is wrong (for safety).
The only way to know the condition of the shocks is to have them dynoed (about $25 each), aside from pulling them of and finding out that they are shot, easily moved in and out.
You're best bet is to call Pfadt and talk to them about the shocks (after you pull one and inspect.
Just FYI, guys that seriously race usually have the shocks dynoed once a year, around 1,200 miles and probably will have those rebuilt.
10-01-2013, 11:10 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Well, there you go, they don't service them or sell parts or sell just one, personally, I'd be looking for different shocks (if that's still true today).
10-01-2013, 11:40 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
If those were double adjustable, then yes you could adjust them, but if they are single adjustable, you will only be fixing the rebound, and the compression damping won't get better. If they are SA's, get rid of them now.
It's now a serious car, it's time for some serious shocks. The track is no place for junk shocks. If the car bottoms in a corner it can upset the car and put you into the wall.
Pfadt doesn't make shocks, they buy them from somebody else, although they could well be made to Pfadt specified damping curves and work just fine when they are new. The problem is, there are a lot of cheap shock manufacturers out there and unless Pfadt is buying their shocks from somebody good (like Bilstein or Koni), what you are getting is, most likely junk. Pfadt doesn't tell you who makes their shocks, and it is very likely that these older shocks could have come from a supplier that is no longer making them for Pfadt.
Good shocks, (Bilstein and Koni's) last a long time. Junk shocks don't. Good shocks can be rebuilt and have product support, junk shocks don't.
If you are just doing track days and have the stock springs you could go to Bilsteins or Koni single adjustable sports and it isn't a big cost, compared to other tracking expenses.
Get it done and don't look back.
It's now a serious car, it's time for some serious shocks. The track is no place for junk shocks. If the car bottoms in a corner it can upset the car and put you into the wall.
Pfadt doesn't make shocks, they buy them from somebody else, although they could well be made to Pfadt specified damping curves and work just fine when they are new. The problem is, there are a lot of cheap shock manufacturers out there and unless Pfadt is buying their shocks from somebody good (like Bilstein or Koni), what you are getting is, most likely junk. Pfadt doesn't tell you who makes their shocks, and it is very likely that these older shocks could have come from a supplier that is no longer making them for Pfadt.
Good shocks, (Bilstein and Koni's) last a long time. Junk shocks don't. Good shocks can be rebuilt and have product support, junk shocks don't.
If you are just doing track days and have the stock springs you could go to Bilsteins or Koni single adjustable sports and it isn't a big cost, compared to other tracking expenses.
Get it done and don't look back.
10-02-2013, 07:20 AM
#7
Pro
Thread Starter
Thanks for the help guys. I've decided I probably pushed them over the edge at WGI in August - I was using all the curbs in the bus stop. I didn't start feeling these shock issues til' after then. I'll start doing research on single and adjustable shocks and see what makes sense.
10-02-2013, 11:08 AM
#8
Drifting
If those were double adjustable, then yes you could adjust them, but if they are single adjustable, you will only be fixing the rebound, and the compression damping won't get better. If they are SA's, get rid of them now.
It's now a serious car, it's time for some serious shocks. The track is no place for junk shocks. If the car bottoms in a corner it can upset the car and put you into the wall.
Pfadt doesn't make shocks, they buy them from somebody else, although they could well be made to Pfadt specified damping curves and work just fine when they are new. The problem is, there are a lot of cheap shock manufacturers out there and unless Pfadt is buying their shocks from somebody good (like Bilstein or Koni), what you are getting is, most likely junk. Pfadt doesn't tell you who makes their shocks, and it is very likely that these older shocks could have come from a supplier that is no longer making them for Pfadt.
Good shocks, (Bilstein and Koni's) last a long time. Junk shocks don't. Good shocks can be rebuilt and have product support, junk shocks don't.
If you are just doing track days and have the stock springs you could go to Bilsteins or Koni single adjustable sports and it isn't a big cost, compared to other tracking expenses.
Get it done and don't look back.
It's now a serious car, it's time for some serious shocks. The track is no place for junk shocks. If the car bottoms in a corner it can upset the car and put you into the wall.
Pfadt doesn't make shocks, they buy them from somebody else, although they could well be made to Pfadt specified damping curves and work just fine when they are new. The problem is, there are a lot of cheap shock manufacturers out there and unless Pfadt is buying their shocks from somebody good (like Bilstein or Koni), what you are getting is, most likely junk. Pfadt doesn't tell you who makes their shocks, and it is very likely that these older shocks could have come from a supplier that is no longer making them for Pfadt.
Good shocks, (Bilstein and Koni's) last a long time. Junk shocks don't. Good shocks can be rebuilt and have product support, junk shocks don't.
If you are just doing track days and have the stock springs you could go to Bilsteins or Koni single adjustable sports and it isn't a big cost, compared to other tracking expenses.
Get it done and don't look back.
10-02-2013, 01:29 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Dean Dodge was at Sachs at the time those were developed and I'm pretty sure he had a hand in them. Dean knows damping, and Sachs makes a good shock. That's a combination that is hard to beat.
Back in early 2010 I was getting some advice from Dean about re-valving my Koni's and I mentioned the JOC shocks and he said he was "very familiar" with them, and they were also working a single and double adjustable for an unnamed "aftermarket tuner". He was being cryptic about what he was doing at the time, but he did mention that the adjustable shocks he was developing for Sachs were for a "well known Corvette aftermarket supplier in Salt Lake".... He said they were intended for "track day use" and not exactly a full competition setup, but that they were going to be a good shock.
Pfadt now has their "featherweight" aluminum shocks and these do appear to be serviceable, which is a good thing. I don't know who did the development of these or who makes them for Pfadt. I would be curious to know if these were the shocks Dean was developing for them and who is the manufacturer. If so I would be a lot more likely to buy a set.
As Dennis Grant has often said, unless someone good makes them anything you buy are most likely junk. On his site he lists the shocks that aren't crap.. Bilstein, Koni, Penske, Ohlins, Sachs, and Dynamic Suspension (he never dyno'd a JRZ or Moton), but everything else he tested was crap.... Until I find out who makes the Featherweights I'm still a bit wary to spend that much for what potentially could be junk, or could be a pretty good shock. You just don't know and as you well know I'm cheap...
The older Pfadt adjustable shocks frankly weren't very good at all, and unfortunately this is what the OP is stuck with.
With the JOC shocks Pfadt has upped their game by going to a first tier supplier and getting a much better product than their older stuff.
Back in early 2010 I was getting some advice from Dean about re-valving my Koni's and I mentioned the JOC shocks and he said he was "very familiar" with them, and they were also working a single and double adjustable for an unnamed "aftermarket tuner". He was being cryptic about what he was doing at the time, but he did mention that the adjustable shocks he was developing for Sachs were for a "well known Corvette aftermarket supplier in Salt Lake".... He said they were intended for "track day use" and not exactly a full competition setup, but that they were going to be a good shock.
Pfadt now has their "featherweight" aluminum shocks and these do appear to be serviceable, which is a good thing. I don't know who did the development of these or who makes them for Pfadt. I would be curious to know if these were the shocks Dean was developing for them and who is the manufacturer. If so I would be a lot more likely to buy a set.
As Dennis Grant has often said, unless someone good makes them anything you buy are most likely junk. On his site he lists the shocks that aren't crap.. Bilstein, Koni, Penske, Ohlins, Sachs, and Dynamic Suspension (he never dyno'd a JRZ or Moton), but everything else he tested was crap.... Until I find out who makes the Featherweights I'm still a bit wary to spend that much for what potentially could be junk, or could be a pretty good shock. You just don't know and as you well know I'm cheap...
The older Pfadt adjustable shocks frankly weren't very good at all, and unfortunately this is what the OP is stuck with.
With the JOC shocks Pfadt has upped their game by going to a first tier supplier and getting a much better product than their older stuff.
