89 C4 suspension setup autox. Thinking out loud.
01-04-2014, 09:05 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
89 C4 suspension setup autox. Thinking out loud.
I plan on racing SCCA street tire PAX (SSM handicap) and NASA NXC this year. Here are current mods:
-Open air lid w/ K&N (previous owner)
-Roller rockers and valve springs (bumped me into SSM instead of BSP) (previous owner)
-Cat delete Y pipe, high flow main cat, high flow cat back (previous owner)
-32mm front bar, 24mm rear bar (my purchase)
-Lowered FE1 springs (previous owner)
-KYB shocks (previous owner)
I am on a tight budget and can only buy fun parts for the weekend fun car occasionally. With that said I'd like to get more handling out of the car without replacing springs. I would like to get QA1 adjustables and was wondering if I could just replace the fronts first and tune to work with the rear KYB's until I can buy rear QA1 also. Will the adjustability of the front shocks make a dramatic enough difference in conjunction with the big sway bars to warrant buying them first and running them with stock rear shocks until I can get rears?
I've been trying to run the handling scenario in my mind of what effect each part I have on the car and plan to do will have on each end of the car. With soft springs but big bars it will handle well and be flat. With tight QA1 front shocks limiting rebound the front should be even more responsive. The rear should stay planted with the soft shocks and spring but the large bar should compensate for the softness and help it to rotate and match the stiffness of the front. But, will the greater shock stiffness in the front make it push if the rear shocks are too soft? Make sense? Good!
-Open air lid w/ K&N (previous owner)
-Roller rockers and valve springs (bumped me into SSM instead of BSP) (previous owner)
-Cat delete Y pipe, high flow main cat, high flow cat back (previous owner)
-32mm front bar, 24mm rear bar (my purchase)
-Lowered FE1 springs (previous owner)
-KYB shocks (previous owner)
I am on a tight budget and can only buy fun parts for the weekend fun car occasionally. With that said I'd like to get more handling out of the car without replacing springs. I would like to get QA1 adjustables and was wondering if I could just replace the fronts first and tune to work with the rear KYB's until I can buy rear QA1 also. Will the adjustability of the front shocks make a dramatic enough difference in conjunction with the big sway bars to warrant buying them first and running them with stock rear shocks until I can get rears?
I've been trying to run the handling scenario in my mind of what effect each part I have on the car and plan to do will have on each end of the car. With soft springs but big bars it will handle well and be flat. With tight QA1 front shocks limiting rebound the front should be even more responsive. The rear should stay planted with the soft shocks and spring but the large bar should compensate for the softness and help it to rotate and match the stiffness of the front. But, will the greater shock stiffness in the front make it push if the rear shocks are too soft? Make sense? Good!
01-04-2014, 09:55 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Get rid of the FE1 springs first. Look up Rubie93's posts on setting up his C4. He's been all through this and after a lot of work ended up with a great handling car and is winning with it... It isn't too expensive and that's what you need to do as step 1. Without the stiffer springs the car is like a marshmallow. You won't be able to get decent handling out of it without the stiffer springs. You will just end up chasing your tail trying to get it under control... Look for a used set in a wrecking yard and get it done.
Don't waste your limited money, forget the QA-1's and get a set of Koni Sports... If you get the QA-1's you will end up getting something better later... Some are using Bilsetiens, but I prefer a **** to be able to tune the front end just a bit..
Lose the rockers and put the stock rockers back in and you can go back to the better index. The springs aren't legal, but if you get rid of the rockers there's no advantage in the springs, and I'd probably let that ride..
Don't waste your limited money, forget the QA-1's and get a set of Koni Sports... If you get the QA-1's you will end up getting something better later... Some are using Bilsetiens, but I prefer a **** to be able to tune the front end just a bit..
Lose the rockers and put the stock rockers back in and you can go back to the better index. The springs aren't legal, but if you get rid of the rockers there's no advantage in the springs, and I'd probably let that ride..
Last edited by Solofast; 01-04-2014 at 10:01 PM.
01-05-2014, 07:25 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Solofast- thanks for your reply. This car is not going to be shooting for a national title. It's simply a weekend fun car that I will hope to win local autox with competing against about 10 other cars in the tire PAX class. As I said in my first post, I am not gong to change springs and I'm not going to retro back to stock rockers.
I simply want to know if with my current setup of soft springs and big bars, will adding front adjustable shocks ONLY allow me to dial in improved handling or should I wait till I can get a whole set. I've read many posts talking about even if you have Koni's you should leave the rear set to full soft and tune the front shocks. So will just buying fronts add improvement?
I simply want to know if with my current setup of soft springs and big bars, will adding front adjustable shocks ONLY allow me to dial in improved handling or should I wait till I can get a whole set. I've read many posts talking about even if you have Koni's you should leave the rear set to full soft and tune the front shocks. So will just buying fronts add improvement?
01-05-2014, 07:32 AM
#4
Safety Car
First. Get rid of the springs. You want the Hyperco Corvette Challenge springs. Then you want to add an adjustable rear sway bar.
Shocks are the last thing you need. You only do shocks when the spring and sway bar package are correct. I use Bilstein for custom built shocks. the Bilstein service is actually cheaper than a new set of shocks. The problem is you have to find a set of old Bilsteins first.
Then enter a lot of events and get some seat time.
Richard Newton
Car Tech Stuff
Shocks are the last thing you need. You only do shocks when the spring and sway bar package are correct. I use Bilstein for custom built shocks. the Bilstein service is actually cheaper than a new set of shocks. The problem is you have to find a set of old Bilsteins first.
Then enter a lot of events and get some seat time.
Richard Newton
Car Tech Stuff
01-05-2014, 07:48 AM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
Solofast- I read the old posts again and it was you that said to get Koni's and set the rear to soft and tune with the front! You helped develop these shocks! How ironic!
It appeared from the post that they were developed for z51 z07 springs thus your recommendation on the springs. But since I am not changing springs I'd still like your input on adding front Koni sports only (for now). Will it help or hurt?
It appeared from the post that they were developed for z51 z07 springs thus your recommendation on the springs. But since I am not changing springs I'd still like your input on adding front Koni sports only (for now). Will it help or hurt?
01-05-2014, 09:01 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
Mike,
The real problem is that the FE1 springs are really soft and because of that the car rolls a lot, as well as has a lot of squat and dive. The big amount of body roll results in loss of the negative camber and you won't get a lot of grip since the front end is limited in how much negative camber you can get. If you ran offset bushings in the lower front control arms you can run big negative camber in the front (more like -3 degrees) and that might get a decent amount of cornering grip, but with that much negative camber you will start to eat front tires and the car will tramline a lot over ruts in the road. You might be able to get there, but it won't be very pleasant on the street.
Rich has been around the block too, and his car works fine and the Hyperco springs work too. There are always different ways to skin a cat, and you can add more roll stiffness to try to make up for the lack of springs, but that isn't the tried and true way of doing it and you will likely spend a year of your time and effort trying to get something that is balanced and works.
With the softer springs you can go bigger on bars at both ends, but the limit is still the point where the rear end starts to jack due to the high rear roll center. The ZR-1 cars used softer rear springs and the 26mm rear bar so you might be able to get away with that and then go bigger on the front bar. You are going to need to buy new bars for both ends so that's another expense.
You need to decide what you want to do and how fast you want to progress. Seat time is worth more than car mods at the earlier stages, but if the car has low grip or handles funny, you end up fighting the car and not learning as much, or even worse, you can develop a lot of bad habits trying to drive around a flaw in the cars handling.
The best thing to do and the least expensive way in the long run is to get the car set up well in the first place and if the car is fast, you will progress more rapidly. Rubie followed this approach in within a year he was laying down some pretty fast times. The bottom line is that it's a lot easier to learn to go fast if the car has a bunch of grip is well balanced, and handles well. If you go out on your own, maybe you can get there too, but it's going to take longer and cost you more in the long run because you will be buying parts and they won't work and then you will end up buying another set.. The least expensive way to do it in the long run is to find out what works, buy it once and enjoy it. I understand that a limited budget can make that difficult, but parts that don't work generally cost just as much as parts that work, so in the long run it's cheaper to just buy what works.
And yes the Koni's were developed on the Z51/Z07 springs but they aren't heavily damped and might work on the softer springs, but, OTOH, I don't know anyone who as done it so you are on your own. On the base springs the jounce will be a bit overdamped all around and the rears will have a bit too much rebound, even on the softest setting. They would likely be better than most other sporting shocks if only because they aren't overly stiff on rebound on the softest setting. The problem is that you want to run the Koni's all the way soft in the rear to start with, and you can't probably go as soft as you want down there. You might have to run the fronts up some to get that to balance.
Going to some really stiff rebound shocks on soft springs used to be done in the lower SCCA stock classes but if you have too much rebound damping and not enough springs the car can end up "Daddio'ing down", (named for Mark Daddio who used super high rebound to good effect in some classes where he couldn't change springs), and the car will get pulled down by the high rebound. That's fine for a small tall car like a Neon, but I've never seen that approach used on a heavier car like a Corvette....
I understand that you don't want to stiffen the car and make it ride like a truck, but the Z51 springs are very liveable on the street. If you had those and the Koni's set for full soft on the street, that's a very liveable package, and you can drive it every day and not have your teeth rattled out.
Sorry for the long post, but if you go outside of what is known to work you will likely end up spending more money and having more frustration in trying to get the car to work right than if you just go ahead and go with what folks who have been there and done that and figured out what works.
The real problem is that the FE1 springs are really soft and because of that the car rolls a lot, as well as has a lot of squat and dive. The big amount of body roll results in loss of the negative camber and you won't get a lot of grip since the front end is limited in how much negative camber you can get. If you ran offset bushings in the lower front control arms you can run big negative camber in the front (more like -3 degrees) and that might get a decent amount of cornering grip, but with that much negative camber you will start to eat front tires and the car will tramline a lot over ruts in the road. You might be able to get there, but it won't be very pleasant on the street.
Rich has been around the block too, and his car works fine and the Hyperco springs work too. There are always different ways to skin a cat, and you can add more roll stiffness to try to make up for the lack of springs, but that isn't the tried and true way of doing it and you will likely spend a year of your time and effort trying to get something that is balanced and works.
With the softer springs you can go bigger on bars at both ends, but the limit is still the point where the rear end starts to jack due to the high rear roll center. The ZR-1 cars used softer rear springs and the 26mm rear bar so you might be able to get away with that and then go bigger on the front bar. You are going to need to buy new bars for both ends so that's another expense.
You need to decide what you want to do and how fast you want to progress. Seat time is worth more than car mods at the earlier stages, but if the car has low grip or handles funny, you end up fighting the car and not learning as much, or even worse, you can develop a lot of bad habits trying to drive around a flaw in the cars handling.
The best thing to do and the least expensive way in the long run is to get the car set up well in the first place and if the car is fast, you will progress more rapidly. Rubie followed this approach in within a year he was laying down some pretty fast times. The bottom line is that it's a lot easier to learn to go fast if the car has a bunch of grip is well balanced, and handles well. If you go out on your own, maybe you can get there too, but it's going to take longer and cost you more in the long run because you will be buying parts and they won't work and then you will end up buying another set.. The least expensive way to do it in the long run is to find out what works, buy it once and enjoy it. I understand that a limited budget can make that difficult, but parts that don't work generally cost just as much as parts that work, so in the long run it's cheaper to just buy what works.
And yes the Koni's were developed on the Z51/Z07 springs but they aren't heavily damped and might work on the softer springs, but, OTOH, I don't know anyone who as done it so you are on your own. On the base springs the jounce will be a bit overdamped all around and the rears will have a bit too much rebound, even on the softest setting. They would likely be better than most other sporting shocks if only because they aren't overly stiff on rebound on the softest setting. The problem is that you want to run the Koni's all the way soft in the rear to start with, and you can't probably go as soft as you want down there. You might have to run the fronts up some to get that to balance.
Going to some really stiff rebound shocks on soft springs used to be done in the lower SCCA stock classes but if you have too much rebound damping and not enough springs the car can end up "Daddio'ing down", (named for Mark Daddio who used super high rebound to good effect in some classes where he couldn't change springs), and the car will get pulled down by the high rebound. That's fine for a small tall car like a Neon, but I've never seen that approach used on a heavier car like a Corvette....
I understand that you don't want to stiffen the car and make it ride like a truck, but the Z51 springs are very liveable on the street. If you had those and the Koni's set for full soft on the street, that's a very liveable package, and you can drive it every day and not have your teeth rattled out.
Sorry for the long post, but if you go outside of what is known to work you will likely end up spending more money and having more frustration in trying to get the car to work right than if you just go ahead and go with what folks who have been there and done that and figured out what works.
01-05-2014, 01:28 PM
#8
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
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Since you're in SSM anyways, get rid of the stock springs like everyone is saying and get some coilovers.
Adjustable a-arms so you can crank the camber up
Adjustable a-arms so you can crank the camber up
01-05-2014, 02:15 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
I appreciate all of the replies and suggestions and I'm well aware that my springs are a weak point but I am not going to change the springs and just want a yes or no as to whether or not I would see a benefit from changing the front shocks to adjustable and leaving the rear shocks stock (for now) in conjunction with already lowered FE1 springs and 32/24 bars (that I already have). Thanks...
01-05-2014, 04:48 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Some Very knowledgeable people have offered advice here. LOL when Solo apologized for a long post. As far as I am concerned, write a book, I will read it!
OP my opinion, you have kinda a mixed up setup. It will be very easy to over dampen. Dont compound the problem by using two very different shocks on each end. Ditch the KYBs and put a set of Bilstein Z51s on there. They are not expensive and cover a wide range of setups well.
OP my opinion, you have kinda a mixed up setup. It will be very easy to over dampen. Dont compound the problem by using two very different shocks on each end. Ditch the KYBs and put a set of Bilstein Z51s on there. They are not expensive and cover a wide range of setups well.
01-05-2014, 05:49 PM
#11
Racer
Thread Starter
Thanks for the advice. I meant no offense to any other posters. I just wanted a definitive yes you will be ok or no it's a bad idea and wait till you can get a complimenting shock set. Thanks again!
01-05-2014, 10:02 PM
#12
Safety Car
Solofast, was a huge help to me. He is too modest. He lived the C4's hayday and had access to things we can only dream of to make these cars handle better. On that note, IDK, about WINNING Solofast, but the car is competitive and fun. Pending the loose nut behind the wheel is doing his job. 
That being said, Mike, I wrote up this short paper based on my own experience, research, and using sources like Solofast. See attachment.
You may find it useful.
If you insist upon running SSM, I'd wait and save the money for a set of coil-overs. That way you can adjust corner weights, ride height, etc...very easily.
SSM is $$$$, but depending on your competition it might work for you.
I would do a serious examination of what you want to compete in (class wise) and figure out what is best for YOU.
For me with my limited budget its SCCA B-Street or nothing. Even that is kinda $$$ when you get into it. LOL.
You really do need the shocks, springs, bars working in harmony. Its a package thing, when you get it right=
The Z51/Z07 springs are very liveable, I have no issues, just don't expect the stupid FE1 floaty, body lean BS. That had to go.
If you want a yes or no. NO, do not change just the front shocks.
That being said, Mike, I wrote up this short paper based on my own experience, research, and using sources like Solofast. See attachment.
You may find it useful.
If you insist upon running SSM, I'd wait and save the money for a set of coil-overs. That way you can adjust corner weights, ride height, etc...very easily.
SSM is $$$$, but depending on your competition it might work for you.
I would do a serious examination of what you want to compete in (class wise) and figure out what is best for YOU.
For me with my limited budget its SCCA B-Street or nothing. Even that is kinda $$$ when you get into it. LOL.
You really do need the shocks, springs, bars working in harmony. Its a package thing, when you get it right=
The Z51/Z07 springs are very liveable, I have no issues, just don't expect the stupid FE1 floaty, body lean BS. That had to go.
If you want a yes or no. NO, do not change just the front shocks.
Last edited by 93Rubie; 01-05-2014 at 10:06 PM.
01-05-2014, 10:15 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Mixing shocks is probably a bad idea. Since the damping curves will be different on each end of the car you could end up with some pretty odd behavior.. A set of matched shocks that aren't very good could well be better than putting good shocks on one end and bad ones on the other.
That said I won a boatload of events and came in second at the Nationals with Koni's on the back and stock shocks on the front of an RX-7 in 84.... They didn't make an insert for the fronts and the back was loose so I got the Koni's and tuned them and got it to work.
That said I won a boatload of events and came in second at the Nationals with Koni's on the back and stock shocks on the front of an RX-7 in 84.... They didn't make an insert for the fronts and the back was loose so I got the Koni's and tuned them and got it to work.
Last edited by Solofast; 01-05-2014 at 10:17 PM.
01-06-2014, 07:05 AM
#14
Burning Brakes
I've auto-xed an '89 auto like yours as well as a real '89 Z51 (no FX3 option) over the past 30 years. The auto drove and handled like my Dad's Cadillac with lots of float, lean, etc. etc. The Z51 was much more fun even with Bilsteins although I eventually went to the Koni adjustables.
Given your opening statement outlining your finances and objectives, I'd say that w/o changing the FE1 springs to the Z51/Z07 springs, you've got the best setup you can get with the FE1, i.e., the Vette is lowered. Changing rollbar diameters in the front or back isn't really going to help; it will just shift the problems from front to rear or vicesa versa. You'll have understeer no matter what you do.
As for shocks, the KYB's are fine for the street, but won't make much difference on course. The QA-1's aren't worth the money IMHO. (I'd go back to the original Bilsteins before buying QA-1's.)
Okay, what can you do? Good brake pads are a must even with the stock brakes. I use Hawk HP+ (which will require additional wheel cleaning), but CarboTech pads work well also. (See CarboTech Adam on this forum for your application.) I switched to all synthetic fluids (oil, diff, ps, tranny, and brake) back in 1991 and never looked back. (I auto-xed the '89 auto for 176K miles before it needed a rebuild. That Vette saw some abuse as it doubled as a student vehicle during auto-x schools.) Tires are a personal choice since good tires cost $$$. Find a set of tires that fit your budget and driving style. (BTW, non-R-compound tires are a good starting point. Read all the tire comparisons you can find, and pick a set that makes sense for you. Whatever you do, keep the 275-40/R17 square configuration that is stock for the '89. Going to a smaller front tire or wider rear tire exacerbates front end push.)
Have fun whatever you do. Get some seat time and consider taking some formal instruction either from your local club or Evolution Performance Driving School. The SCCA has a new program, The Starting Line. See if one is available in your area.
Good Luck!
Given your opening statement outlining your finances and objectives, I'd say that w/o changing the FE1 springs to the Z51/Z07 springs, you've got the best setup you can get with the FE1, i.e., the Vette is lowered. Changing rollbar diameters in the front or back isn't really going to help; it will just shift the problems from front to rear or vicesa versa. You'll have understeer no matter what you do.
As for shocks, the KYB's are fine for the street, but won't make much difference on course. The QA-1's aren't worth the money IMHO. (I'd go back to the original Bilsteins before buying QA-1's.)
Okay, what can you do? Good brake pads are a must even with the stock brakes. I use Hawk HP+ (which will require additional wheel cleaning), but CarboTech pads work well also. (See CarboTech Adam on this forum for your application.) I switched to all synthetic fluids (oil, diff, ps, tranny, and brake) back in 1991 and never looked back. (I auto-xed the '89 auto for 176K miles before it needed a rebuild. That Vette saw some abuse as it doubled as a student vehicle during auto-x schools.) Tires are a personal choice since good tires cost $$$. Find a set of tires that fit your budget and driving style. (BTW, non-R-compound tires are a good starting point. Read all the tire comparisons you can find, and pick a set that makes sense for you. Whatever you do, keep the 275-40/R17 square configuration that is stock for the '89. Going to a smaller front tire or wider rear tire exacerbates front end push.)
Have fun whatever you do. Get some seat time and consider taking some formal instruction either from your local club or Evolution Performance Driving School. The SCCA has a new program, The Starting Line. See if one is available in your area.
Good Luck!
01-06-2014, 08:00 AM
#15
Racer
Thread Starter
I'm not worried about ride harshness as this is a weekend fun car and not a daily driver. I have read every post about this subject and there are two schools of thought. Stiff springs medium bars, adjustable shocks OR soft springs, big bars and balance with adjustable shocks. Due to money available for playing with the car vs using for the family, I am going to keep my current setup for now (FE1 springs, 32/24 bars) and buy Koni adjustable in the coming months and dial it in the best I can till future funds are available.
As for the class I'm running in, I will be in Street tire PAX with SSM index (going down to BSP would require the cost of buying stock rockers). There are about 10 cars in this class with the fastest guy usually being a 370Z with a stock class index. My calculations show that I need to find about 3 seconds a lap for our indexes to be on par with each other. There is talk of changing our street tire class to SP and above due to the new national street/stock class. That would increase my chances big time!
I have past experience in autox. I used to occasionally race a 91 Z28 in FS and then a 84 VW GTI in OSF (open street fwd) about 8-9 years ago. I also competed in the Mazda Rev It Up competition in 2003-2004. Came in 112 out of 20,000+ in 2004! With that said, I know I still need a lot of seat time and still have a lot to learn. I'd describe myself as a fair/good driver with limited knowledge of car setup. ;-). Still plenty to learn.
As for the class I'm running in, I will be in Street tire PAX with SSM index (going down to BSP would require the cost of buying stock rockers). There are about 10 cars in this class with the fastest guy usually being a 370Z with a stock class index. My calculations show that I need to find about 3 seconds a lap for our indexes to be on par with each other. There is talk of changing our street tire class to SP and above due to the new national street/stock class. That would increase my chances big time!
I have past experience in autox. I used to occasionally race a 91 Z28 in FS and then a 84 VW GTI in OSF (open street fwd) about 8-9 years ago. I also competed in the Mazda Rev It Up competition in 2003-2004. Came in 112 out of 20,000+ in 2004! With that said, I know I still need a lot of seat time and still have a lot to learn. I'd describe myself as a fair/good driver with limited knowledge of car setup. ;-). Still plenty to learn.
Last edited by HandsomeMike; 01-06-2014 at 08:05 AM.
01-06-2014, 08:53 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
I think he has a good package so far . Tire choice is a huge factor . Also control arm bushings and a good alignment .
Some good " stock " HD long slot 1.5 rockers can be had for under 50.00 and changed in a night .
Race in a class where you are competitive . And have fun or you will get burned out .
An 80 year old ,30 year veteran AX guy told me this year ."Don't forget , this is supposed to be for fun "
Some good " stock " HD long slot 1.5 rockers can be had for under 50.00 and changed in a night .
Race in a class where you are competitive . And have fun or you will get burned out .
An 80 year old ,30 year veteran AX guy told me this year ."Don't forget , this is supposed to be for fun "
01-06-2014, 12:47 PM
#17
Racer
Thread Starter
Rob- Good advice from the 80 year old!
And an edit on the Mazda Rev It Up ranking- 112 out of I think 6000 for the city of ATL, 2000 out of 20,000 for the nation. I was re-reading the 112 out of 20,000 and thinking that sounded backwards!
And an edit on the Mazda Rev It Up ranking- 112 out of I think 6000 for the city of ATL, 2000 out of 20,000 for the nation. I was re-reading the 112 out of 20,000 and thinking that sounded backwards!
01-06-2014, 04:39 PM
#18
Le Mans Master
Just an FYI I may have a set of Z07 springs sitting in the shed. I bought them used to replace my delaminating springs on the 92. Then I changed my mind and went coilovers.
If I can dig them out this weekend I can probably make you a sweet deal for them.
If I can dig them out this weekend I can probably make you a sweet deal for them.
01-06-2014, 05:24 PM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Of course this offer would present itself when I have no spare cash for the Vette. I just bought sway bars for Christmas so it's the wife's turn for a present and will be a while before I buy anything else. Plus I'd have to spend money on the install. I am only mildly inclined in part replacement. That and a lack of tools. I can do sway bars and shocks but springs gets a bit above me. Unless you're talking the price of shipping only to TN the wife will kill me if I tell her I'm spending more money on my toy.
01-12-2014, 02:13 PM
#20
Advanced
Over at the lateral-g.net forum Ron Sutton has some stickies and a great Q&A and tutorial on setting up a front suspension, which includes what he says is the new standard setup- soft spring/big bar.
As to QA1's, they will send you a generic printout of their DA shocks. I would suggest you ask for one. They get very stiff, very quickly.
If your having fun in SSM, great, but out here, 240SX's with big boost are the car's to have. (They're in SM, not SSM though). They've moved the non-Z06 to BS, where the C4 is, along with the S2000, but depending on the type of courses your club sets up, the C4 can still be competitive in stock-- and being able to use Rivals, brings the cost down even more.
I'm running a XP car now and finding out how quickly time to $'s spent comes into play. Same with SSM.
As to QA1's, they will send you a generic printout of their DA shocks. I would suggest you ask for one. They get very stiff, very quickly.
If your having fun in SSM, great, but out here, 240SX's with big boost are the car's to have. (They're in SM, not SSM though). They've moved the non-Z06 to BS, where the C4 is, along with the S2000, but depending on the type of courses your club sets up, the C4 can still be competitive in stock-- and being able to use Rivals, brings the cost down even more.
I'm running a XP car now and finding out how quickly time to $'s spent comes into play. Same with SSM.
Last edited by bse53; 01-12-2014 at 04:25 PM.