s'noJob

I recently told an instructor during an HPDE that I get uneasy if I see cars behind me on the track waiting to pass. When this happens, I drive faster than my comfort level and I drift off the line.

He said next time I should ask for a "mirrors off" instruction. The mirrors are turned towards him so HE can see approaching traffic, and can direct me to point by as necessary so I can keep my eyes where they belong - on the road in front of me.

I have never heard of this - have you?

And before you say, "If you can't go at speed, get off the track," please try to think of something more contructive to suggest - I'm trying my best to learn the line, not to see how fast I can go.

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Bad Karma

I've never heard of the mirrors off approach. Honestly, it's something you are going to have to get used to.

In any HPDE I've done there has been clear cut instruction in the driver's meeting about what are the passing zones. You shouldn't have to worry at this level about anyone trying to drive bomb you or pass you in a corner. Stay on line, make your turn then worry about the wave by. That car has to stay close enough behind you to be able to pass come the straight passing zone; but shouldn't be in your back seat. Trust that you are not going to get run over and complete your turn. The car(s) behind you are only sacrificing a turn or two before they hit a passing zone in most cases.

With that said, I'm interested to see what a bunch of the guys here who do instruction have to say.

ScaryFast

Seems like a bad idea to me. You need to work on traffic awareness as part of your training, not the opposite.

But different things work for different people.

RDnomorecobra

I've not heard of that. If you do it, would you be comfortable not being able to see anything back there? I'd be scared to just turn into a corner if I can't see what's going on behind me. Realize that you'd be giving that up, and your instructor is taking on responsibility to call out what's going on back there.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Interesting you bring this up, as we had the same setup during a drive I did at Exotics Racing out in Las Vegas. All three mirrors were turned to the instructor and I absolutely hated it, as it’s pretty unnerving not knowing what is going on behind you.

I would agree with the comments above about NOT asking for this during your next Hyperdrive/HPDE. Work on using your mirrors just like anything else, and add it to your “toolbox”.

s'noJob

As I think of it, probably not. Though the rules state one can only pass in certain zones, and also if one wants to signal to a driver they want to pass they need to ride at a close but safe distance behind that driver, my instinct on the highway is opposite - passing zones are plentiful and if people want to pass, they usually begin their pass well behind me.

I just ask to see if any instructors say, "Oh, yeah we do that all the time for drivers who request it," or "I've never heard of it and any instructor who suggests it should consider the liability."

Granted I just gotta get over this issue, but what better place than on the track where passing rules and responsible instructors can help me through it?
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autoxer6

If it helps you, and doesn't hurt others, do it. Focusing on one thing at a time is very helpful for learning. You just have to work on the traffic management later.

1BDRSK

I'd have to agree with most of the above comments. You're better off learning the line while also paying attention to what's going on around you...it takes alot of concentration and alot of laps. But you'll be much further ahead than what I would consider taking several steps back by not using your mirrors.

JerryTX

I experienced it as well driving with exotics racing in LV. It was very unnerving as an experienced driver. I do not see a problem with asking for it as a newer driver. Like you said, it allows you to focus on one thing, go for it. Some groups allow instructors to touch the wheel as needed. That one I think should and is more controversial; but if a green student says "here take the mirrors", as long as the organizing group allows it I think it's a smart move on your part knowing your own capabilities to request it.

ZedO6

Not sure I'd want to be on the track with a student who was not using his mirrors. Racing and HPDE events require intense spatial awareness. Even in the most controlled HDPE session, people are pushing limits and ultimately trying to occupy the same space...i.e. the correct line around the track. Dealing with traffic, both faster and slower, is something better learned sooner than later.

My advice to students, make sure you are in the appropriate run group and don't think twice about giving up a turn to a faster driver. Let him get in front and perhaps learn from him for the one or two turns you may be able to watch him. The object is to improve and learn, not tune out normal track distractions and create a temporary artificial situation that will not help build necessary skills. Just my $.02

Jawnathin

Would not do this, if you're going to continue this as a hobby, you're going to have to get used to using your mirrors at some point. I think this would hamper your development.

But anyway, I don't think the solution is to hide the mirrors, but instead just point people by instead of trying to speed up when they catch up to you. No harm on pointing someone by. You're doing yourself a favor by not pushing the car beyond your comfort and you're giving the drivers behind you a favor as you aren't holding them up.

chasboy

If you are in a group that allows passing only by pointby, how will you know to let someone by?

harrydirty

To the OP: As long as you recognize this is an artificial situation and that you need to have full awareness to be an effective and safe driver, no harm if sanctioning body is ok with it. I would expect that by the next time on track, you are using all your awareness, including mirrors, to keep up with what's happening around you.

I understand the pressure of "driving your mirrors" and have seen first hand the problems it can lead to, so kudos to you for at least recognizing that it needs to be dealt with. Another alternative would be to pit the car for a lap, take a deep breath, and go back out again when there is a gap in the traffic.

Above all, enjoy the challenge of learning to drive safely on the track, and have fun!

autoxer6

Sarcasm coming in 3... 2... 1...

Real racing involves monitoring your car, tires, competition, track conditions, and relaying that information back to your team while passing in the corners. Since that is the end goal, why not start will all of that during your first track day? Open passing, radio communication into the pits, spotters, etc.

... because it's to much, and it's easier to learn one step at a time.

s'noJob

See Post #1.
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redtopz

True, but if you are a person who cannot drive a line at 5/10ths and check your mirrors on the straights then maybe you should auto-x for a while then come back to the track. I started with auto-x as did many racers and that allows you to focus on just one thing. At the track, you must use your mirrors. I can't imagine pointing the mirrors to a passenger and hoping they will tell me what's going on. That sounds kind of ridiculous.

OP, I remember getting anxious and worrying about the car behind me when I was new. Some new drivers are overly concerned with cars behind them to the point that it affects their ability to drive their car on the line. Others are not concerned enough about cars behind them and they tend to be the ones who **** everyone off by never giving point by's. Try not to be either of those extremes. Just relax, drive your line at your pace, and check your mirrors once you have straightened your steering wheel coming onto the straight. If anyone is close or gaining, give them a point by. Simple.

FASTFATBOY

I watch the mirrors for my novice students. I tell them in the paddock sitting in the car that I am "taking" the right mirror. I tell them when I reach up with my left hand and tap your rear view mirror you need to let someone go by you.

If thats an issue with you, you need to overcome it. At DE's there are set passing areas, acknowledge you have a faster car behind you and point it by in the next passing zone.....simple. He's stuck back there until you get to the next passing zone so don't sweat it.

jlutherva

1. If your instructor tells you that you are not driving fast enough pit in and get a new instructor.

2. Keep the left and interior mirrors. The instructor should have the right exterior mirror. You have to know what's going on behind you. You can't rely on the instructor. Heck, some instructors go halfway around the track before looking in the mirror. There's a lot of variability in instructors.

3. Don't drive in the mirror. In novice and most intermediate run groups, there are restricted passing zones. When a car comes up behind you, give them a wave in the interior mirror or tap the mirror. That tells them that they should be prepared to pass at the next passing zone. Next passing zone, don't accelerate, that will help them get them by you.

4. If a train forms behind you, pit in and allow them pass. It's much easier to learn when you are not being pushed.

There's no problem going slow in the novice run group. The problem is when slow moving cars don't give passing signals. This is an instructor issue - not the student. The instructor needs to tell you there's a passing zone coming up and on which side the passing should take place. Give one clear signal to each car that you want to pass you. Be conservative; don't give late passing signals, they might just take it!

Learn to relax and have fun!

Jim

71corv

Agree with most of the info posted. The instructors I have had, all used the right side mirror only. I was informed of cars approaching from the rear and told to acknowledge them thru the rearview mirror and to give the point by as we approached the passing zone. Thus, the "no mirrors" approach seems ridiculous. Take your time, listen to your instructor and don't worry what's behind you at this point. They can't go anywhere till the passing zone.

Gene

SouthernSon

Your mirror anxiety is not unique. As said by some above, knowing the line and, more importantly for passing setups, the track out will help you set up a point bye. If you are negotiating a right turn and tracking out to the left of the track then you know you will be giving a point bye over the roof. Wait until you are established on the straight, give the point bye and, after the car moves over to pass, lift throttle some to accommodate the pass. Nothing to it. You have to know where you are going to be on the track when arriving at the straight - the line, if you will.