Z06Norway

WE all know that P&M Corvette used CC brakes in GT1, and not now.
Regulations prohibit them for using CC in GT2 ?

i race in Norwegian GT2 class, with a Callaway GT3 car.

i downsized engine from 7.000 cc to 6.200 cc so car fits better into our class rules and weight.
So now i need to remove as much weight as i can.

Rotors is a big weight saving area.

Anyone know if CC brakes are available and not in GT1 price range


i race a 2007 Callaway Competition Corvette GT3, based off a street car. But a fantastic balanced and quick car...
i just want to shed weight... it now sits at 2.820 pounds with no or little fuel. Fuel tank is 107 liters.
i can shed another 20 kg (aprox 44 pounds) and has just rotors to do and hoped i could do CC brakes.

Ps we do sprint race... only 22-30 minutes

tia


regards
Rune

BEZ06

Hi Rune

Forum vendor RichierichZ06 works for a dealer in California, and he's been selling the ZR1 c/c brake setup for around $8000:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...-under-8k.html


That thread and price is about 3 years old, but shoot him a PM and see what the package is going for now.

The problem might be that you'll probably need 19 inch ZR1 wheels - at least up front. Although some of the ZR1 guys may be using a CCW 18 incher. Check in the ZR1 section to see what they are using that fits over those huge rotors and Brembo calipers.

Are you in Florida now?

If so, we're running an HPDE on the Daytona Rolex 24 course April 10-11 and you may still be able to register for that.

Also, the National Corvette Museum HPDE at Sebring will be April 14-15. I believe registration is closed for that, but you would certainly enjoy coming over to visit with a bunch of us Corvette Forum guys.

Hope to see you at Daytona and/or Sebring in a few weeks!!

Bob

Werks

Hi Rune, me and a few friends here use the CCM rotors and brake set up quite a bit for our track cars. Obviously there is a difference between the carbon/carbon brakes used by the top GT type teams and F1 and the carbon ceramic matrix CCM rotors used by the ZR1 and other street cars. If you are looking for a CC brake set up then talk to AP Racing or Brembo and prepare to get out your check book! If you are looking for CCM like on the ZR1 then it will result in a decent weight reduction but for racing use I would be a little concerned about keeping the rotors cool as they wear by oxidation from heat (wich makes them loose mass) not by loosing thickness like normal iron rotors. I'm guessing that your car as it's set up as a full race car and built by a realy good shop is running quite a bit of ducting and cooling to your front rotors already though correct? Second as far as pads are concerned the OEM pads work well but you will want to experiment with the Pagid RS29's and the Endless W007's (which seem to be the best pads for ccb's out there right now from what I hear). Pad pricing is somewhat on the expensive side for aftermarket CCM pads in the shape used by the ZR1 rotors but over time I'm sure will come down in price. As far as rotor wear is concerend we seem to get about 25x track days out of our front rotors based on 5x 20-25min session per day, so they actually last quite a long time and of course there is no issues with cracking or any of that like you have to deal with when you run iron rotors.

Having said that though to cut weight the two easiest and cheapest ways of doing that are through a light weight batter and light weight exhaust system. What are you using for those?

skxf430

18" wheels from Forgeline, Finspeed and CCW will clear the ceramic brakes.

If you are racing with the stock ceramic brakes, I really don't know how long those will last with all that abuse. For, road racing you may want to look at a Movit system which is a lot more money intially but they are true carbon all the way through and will last a lot longer.

froggy47

batter, sorry, please elaborate.




Never mind battery.

Werks

Lol, yep that was a typo, meant battery!



skfx430, actually the Movit rotors are made by Surface Transforms in the UK and those are still different than the true carbon / carbon brake systems (so solid carbon rotor with solid carbon brake pad) that are used by F1 and some of the higher levels of racing. Believe it or not it's even more expensive lol!

Z06Norway

Thanks Bob, i will try and find race CC brakes, ZR1 brakes are good, but not race good
No, i am in Cold Norway, working hard to improve and overhaul every bit of my race car. Season starts may 10th... when polar bears move out of the way just kidding, we are way south of that problem... although we are almost same latitude as Ancorage Alaska

I was planning Florida in april, easter time... but now my girlfriend backs out, so it will be July.

Take care hope to hook up next time i am over there

Z06Norway

Its a proper race car, would class in with your GTD in Tudor racing, so not quite a GTLM.... i wish i could have one of those

I have Lithium race battery, less than 5 pounds, exhaust is titanium, roof, halo front and rear fender is CF. basically it is as light as it gets. i even gutted headlight assembly and installed LED... saved me 6 pounds total.
radiator is flipped foreward this season, so smaller radiator, but better airflow. Engine is downsized from 7000 cc to 6200 cc, so i guess that one is also slightly lighter (crank)

I will check with Brembo and AP Racing.. my contact at Callaway is not keen on me running CC brakes... he say its to much hassle and ****... but i think his reference point is their kind of racing... much longer stint.

Anyway, thanks will look into it and see where i end up

Werks

I think that part of the issue with real CC brakes for what you are doing, sprint racing is that they need heat in order to work. So when cold there are no brakes and the when hot you have amazing, grabby brakes. In between, well then you have brakes that only work so, so. That is probably one of the reasons that your guy at Callaway was saying that it is too much hassle. Also I should add that when they get hot, they get really, really hot. So they will require an extensive amount of ducting and end up having to deal with issues like your bearings and hubs getting hot and keeping those cool too. When you do some research into this you will find that as far as calipers from the likes of AP and Brembo for CC use they are specially configured with Titanium pistons and some other things so generally the CC spec calipers can be used with CC or iron rotors but the iron spec calipers are not recommended for use with CC. I looked into some of this a bit my self and expect for the calipers from AP that are compatible with CC rotors to run in the range of $3.5k to +/- $5k per caliper for fronts and a little less (+/- 500-1k less) for rears. So figure that you are going to be in the $12-$18k range for calipers alone plus the cost of rotors, lines, mounting brackets etc. etc. I'd figure on around a mid $20-30k range once all is said and done.

To be candid with you as you are doing shorter duration sprint races I might suggest an alternative that I have been thinking about and I believe might work quite well for you, be much cheaper and provide you with the weight reduction that you are looking for. First I'm going to assume that you already have good quality racing calipers. Check the max rotor size that the specific front and rear caliper that you have are useable with. If it is 15.5" (395mm) front and 15" (380mm) rear then they will fit the stock ZR1 CCM rotor ring sizes. So you can utilize your racing quality calipers that you already have that more than likely also use the thicker 20-30mm brake pads which offer better heat insulation (of the caliper) and will not wear out as quickly as the thinner stock 16-17mm thick pads (so ultimately saving you money). Then just order a front and rear rotor and have your race shop measure things up to see how everything lines up and either machine you a set of caliper mount brackets or a set of rotor hats so that everything mounts up properly.

There are a couple reasons that I mention the above configuration. First you can buy the OEM ZR1 CCM rotors on Amazon for $1100 for fronts and $1300 for rears including hats. So they are cheap, they are also light (like you are looking for) and easy to source. They provide excellent braking performance both cold or hot so you are not going to have to deal with the CC no heat no brakes issue. There is also absolutely no issue with running them in shorter sprint races, you just have to pair them with the right brake pad material. For that as I mentioned before try the Pagid RS29, Endless W007 pad compound, ME20 or possibly the N05U. The pad material is relatively expensive but as you are using the thicker 20-30mm race pads, your not going to have to deal with a lot of replacement costs on those.

This would be a bit of a hybrid brake system. You use race quality calipers (that you probably already have), thicker race oriented pad design, and lower cost but still light weight CCM rotors (which at the end of the day are the same as used on the current Ferrari Challenge cars so they are race/competition worthy). Just a thought! No matter how you decide to move forward please keep us posted and let us know how things work out!

Z06Norway

Thanks will look into testing this, ZR1 might not keep up to real CC brakes.. but its 20% of the price.... so i can use 5x rotors for the same cost. my front calliper is Alcon race units from Japan, made for GT500 and is WIDE :-) they take rotors 36 mm and pads 35 mm each...
so i need to find a rotor hat that will align ZR1 rotor 18.3 mm offset

Rune

Werks

I think that you see the light, if this can be made to work (which I do not see why it would not) I think it offers a lot of bang for the buck!

As you mentioned you would need to replace the rotor hat or possibly the caliper mounting bracket. For rotor hat's I know the company Finspeed has made some for custom ones before (for a different rotor, caliper set up) so I know they can make them for your application. Also I was talking to another company (Racing Brake) on another forum and he was commenting on the fact that just making the rear CCB hats out of aluminum instead of steel (as stock) like he has done for some GTR customers would cut an additional 4-4.5lbs out of each rear rotor assembly and I'm guessing about 2-3lbs out of each front! He can make the hats also, so there is a possible second source for you. The nice thing about this is that it serves two purposes, it makes the system fit your specific purposes and it will cut an additional 12-15lbs more weight out of the brake system!

If you do end up moving forward with this and testing it please keep me in the loop via pm. Thanks!

Z06Norway

will do